to be bl**dy furious that my DD has measles because other parents won't vaccinate?

[elportodelgato]

poor DD is only 11 mo and has horrid measles all over her, full of cold, streaming eyes, diarrhea, very unhappy and sleepy and limp. I am so so for her, but more I am absolutely bloody with idiot parents who won't have the MMR!

The doctor actually told me this morning that the reason it is so prevalent in our area is because of stupid people refusing to vaccinate their children and compromising the immunity of the whole group. So now my LO, who is only 2 months off having the vaccination herself, is really really sick because of other people's stupidity. It's making my blood boil! Do people not realise how dangerous it can be in little babies? And does anyone still seriously believe the so called "research" which claimed a link between MMR and autism? It has been so completely discredited in recent years you would think people would have got over it by now and started vaccinating again

Arrgh!!

Kitty

What do you mean by proven?

spokette - I am flabbergasted that you call yourself a scientist, and then post the following:

"my view is that Andrew Wakefield who sparked the paranoia has been discredited"

As a scientist, you should be able to distinguish between a MAN being persecuted/discredited/crucified/etc and his RESEARCH being discredited. Afaik, his initial research has not been discredited. Ever.

"As a scientist myself, there is no way I would draw conclusions like he did based on such a tiny sample of subjects."

A scientist would, I surely hope, care to actually read the research in question before commenting on it. And in Wakefield's research, the conclusion concerns ONLY that small sample. It does not "draw conclusions" concerning population at large. What it says is: 'We identified associated gastrointestinal disease and developmental regression in a group of previously normal children, which was generally associated in time with possible environmental triggers.' (MMR in 8 cases, and measles infection in 1 case).

"My older brother is autistic and did not have MMR jab. My nephew is autistic and we knew something was amiss from when he was about 9 months old. Nothing to do with the vaccine."

So? Neither Wakefield nor anyone on this thread claims ALL cases of autism are caused by MMR. In fact, I believe figures are more like only 6% of autism cases appear to be triggered by MMR.

"The apparent rise in autism is down to improve diagnosis and more recognition of the symptoms."

Again, one would hope a real scientist would know a bit more about the subject before mouthing off about it. NOBODY here is saying that apparent rise in autism is due to MMR. Wakefield never said this, either.

"Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein were actually Aspergic"

These kids who are vaccine-damaged and regress don't just stop at Asperger's Syndrome, though, do they? They go from smiling, talking toddlers to withdrawn, non-verbal fully autistic. The change is rather obvious to be chalked off to "better diagnosis".

"Another point that I cannot fathom is if parents really believe that the vaccine is responsible (and according to Wakefield, it was due to the measle element), then why bother giving single jab for measles?"

My understanding is that the culprit is the JOINT action of three powerful pathogens, not just the measles virus itself. If you, the scientist, have access to research that suggests otherwise, I for one would be interested to read it.

I mean that medical evidence conclusively linked smoking to lung disease etc etc. It is astounding to think that it happened only very recently. It's so obvious isn't it?

But that's science for you, unless proven without any shadow of a doubt then it's not 'true'.

bec as you may have read, novicemama's DD is nearly better - I am amazed that her recovery is so quick as I thought measles was extemely serious. But I am pleased for your DD that this is the case.

However what is truely depressing OP is that you agree with statements such as those provided by 'massivenorks'. Nevermind, the offer of a little dosh goes a long way in getting others to agree with obviously ridiculous opinions..

Agree with kittywise - there is not one person on this thread who would vaccinate if you knew your child would be damaged as a result - including you, OP. We all look after the interests of our own children first - that is, indeed normal and how it should be.

Sheesh......good job I have a newborn to keep me busy so that I don't have time to get all caught up in this topic again...

Leonie, your second link doesn't prove anything either, it just states that autism rates are rising but does not give any indication of why this might be, other than being sceptical that it is down to improved diagnosis. Given the huge HUGE body of scientific evidence that MMR does not cause autism, why don't you pick on something else to blame the rise on? As someone said to me yesterday - it's like saying "everyone with autism wears clothes, so I blame wearing clothes for autism, let's all go naked"

Kitty

I still dont understand what you are saying. Are you saying that before 1999 there was no 'proof' that smoking was harmful?

What was this proof, and what is it about the earlier evidence that you think was not adequate?

Well, people of the vaccine generation are told exaggerated stories of these diseases and are now surprised when a little baby manages to fight the worst (measles) off in a few days.

I was given vaccine 8 hrs after giving birth whilst breastfeeding they say everything travels through milk. Surely my son would have autism, If there was any risk. Also im not sure but are the single vaccines also less effective.

Leonie - "Changing age at diagnosis can explain a 12% increase, and inclusion of milder cases, a 56% increase"

I think you've just demonstrated that you can read what you like into lots of research.

Cote

You say that no-one would say that the MMR would lead to a rise in autism.
If children can develop autism after the MMR, who would not have developed it otherwise, then how could it not lead to an increase in the number of people with autism?

Kittywise, I don't know which planet you on but it has been known since the 1950s that there is a link between smoking and cancer!

In fact, when I was doing my PhD in the 1980s, one of my colleagues was studying the a particular constituent of cigarette smoke which was carninogenic!

sluchy- genetic p[redispotion/ presence of autio immune disorders means that no,probably not

Novicemama, as I said on an earlier post, both my DS's did have MMR, when MMR was fairly new. I was told, and given a leaflet stating, that it was a 'one off' injection. When DS! was about to start school, we got a letter telling us that his batch of vaccine had 'failed' and we needed to have him MMRd again. We did so. He still caught measles a couple of years later. With DS2, he also had MMR so-called 'one off' injection and again, just as he was about to start school, we got the 'batch failed' letter. As this was at about the same time that the wakefield research was published, we chose not to have him 'boosted'. I did not have him boosted because I felt I had been lied to by the healthcare professionals about what was really required with regard to MMR. If I had been told in the beginning that it required several jabs, I would probably have gone ahead with it. But I felt then, as I do now, that they were not being truthful with me.
FWIW, DS! despite MMR and booster, caught measles a couple of years later. It is entirely possible that your child has caught measles from someone who was vaccinated but for whom it really did not work. I can understand and sympathise with you because you are upset that your child is unwell, but to insult every parent who does not share your views about having their child vaccinated, is in my view, wrong and nasty.

"Surely my son would have autism, If there was any risk."

NOBODY is saying that ALL children are at risk from MMR.

The idea is that SOME children, a tiny minority, are at risk. Those with bowel problems. With history of autism or auto-immune conditions in family. Who knows what else - We don't know for sure because the Inquisition that persecuted Wakefield ensured that no scientist in his right mind will continue his research.

novicemama - I find your sentiments incredibly offensive and totally insensitive to those of us who have a child with autism. And your 'clothes' analogy is beyond brainless.

Sayithowitis - please read back re: herd immunity. Yes it might not have been an unvaccinated child that gave the OP measles - but this is irrelevant.

glad the OP's DD is nearly better - WHO says that 2-3 weeks is "normal" recovery period for a well nourished, normal immune system person so that's great she's better so quickly

Peachy that is my feeling towards the OP as well. She is so keen to garner empathy for her own situation. Yet lacks the good grace to empathise with others even if she doesnt agree with the research you, beach, Pag etc have diligently provided. Nevermind, her own child is 'almost better' (I am pleased about that) but you lot can go hang. What an attitude!

CoteDAzur, who are ignoring the indisputable fact that Wakefield's misleading announcement has led to the low uptake of the MMR vaccine. All your screeching cannot distract from the fact that there are many parents out there who believe that if they give their children the MMR vaccine, they will end up autistic.

I know FAQ it is very encouraging news re recovery times for measles.

spokette - Wakefields research was published in 1998 wasn't it?