to be bl**dy furious that my DD has measles because other parents won't vaccinate?

[elportodelgato]

poor DD is only 11 mo and has horrid measles all over her, full of cold, streaming eyes, diarrhea, very unhappy and sleepy and limp. I am so so for her, but more I am absolutely bloody with idiot parents who won't have the MMR!

The doctor actually told me this morning that the reason it is so prevalent in our area is because of stupid people refusing to vaccinate their children and compromising the immunity of the whole group. So now my LO, who is only 2 months off having the vaccination herself, is really really sick because of other people's stupidity. It's making my blood boil! Do people not realise how dangerous it can be in little babies? And does anyone still seriously believe the so called "research" which claimed a link between MMR and autism? It has been so completely discredited in recent years you would think people would have got over it by now and started vaccinating again

Arrgh!!

I don?t think the Govt claims that there is no risk to vaccines. I think their argument, which I happen to agree with, is that the overwhelming evidence suggests that vaccines are safe for the vast majority of children. The evidence that the JCVI use as a basis for their decisions also discredits a link between MMR and autism ? surely it is essential that such important decisions are taken on the best available evidence that exists at the time? And keeping that under review?

It seems illogical to me to assert that ?they? (whoever they might be) are ?poisoning? our children and that there is some sort of global pharmaceutical conspiracy to suppress all evidence. And, yet on the other hand to think that an official Govt scheme that recognises vaccine damage supports that viewpoint. Doesn?t one cancel out the other?

Kittywise

What do you mean by "an equal and opposite reaction"

'I don?t think the Govt claims that there is no risk to vaccines. I think their argument, which I happen to agree with, is that the overwhelming evidence suggests that vaccines are safe for the vast majority of children.'

Have you read the thread? No one is arguing that point. The point is the small minority, should they be well and truly fucked for the vast majority, or should research like Wakefield's , looking into a small subset of children who may be vulnerable, be allowed to continue? You can do large scale statistical studies till you are blue in the face, it won't help.

fair enough kitty.

Am just remembering why I chose to have mine vaccinated.

It's precisely so that children like Peachy's who might be at risk from the vaccine may still be safer, because the risk of mine giving them anything is diminished. And all the available evidence suggested that mine were not in the category at risk from the vaccine (noone in large extended family has ever had an adverse reaction from any vaccination and there is no known case in our family).

I might conceivably have been selfish if I had not given them the vaccine. But I very much doubt I would have done so, or thought it was an unselfish thing to do had I been in Peachy's situation.

"If my kids were malnourished, starving and generally had weakened immune systems then the chances are I would have them immunised if I could".

I sort of see it the opposite. In that because my DD is in good health then she is fit for the vaccine.
Whereas if she'd had immunity problems I might've considered not.

never heard anything as ridiculous as the ward of court statement... does human rights mean anything to some people???

Though where there is disagreement between parents the courts have ordered that children have the MMR:

link

I suppose in the context of this thread there seem to be people on it who DO believe that all vaccines are safe to give and that the gvmnt still reccs to give them supports that.

And that anyone who doesn't giev the vaccs is stupid.

or that's how it has come across to me.

Sadly, there are kids who get the illnesses, like the OP's little girl.
And there are kids who may well have been damaged, such as Peacy's kids and possibly mine (although very mild now- he's just eccentric- no diagnosis).
And there are a whole loas of kids who did get the vaccine and haven't got measles and so that was the best outcoem all round

thank you Cory

But when you give your child a vaccine, surely you do it because you think, weighing up the risks and benefits, that going ahead with it is the best thing for your child.

Not that you are risking your childs health to help society, but that you are doing the best for your child?

I suppose there are a number of things that people think when they chose to vacc their kids.
The top one is to protect the child, i would expect.
But maybe it occurs to some people that there is a sub section of society who have unvaccinated kids.
We all ahve different stuff floating around in our heads

I vaccinated ds2 with MMR as he was so totally different from ds1, and he was fine.
I wasn't sure if i'd done the right thing and it was agonising.

neither have allergies etc, just ds1 was a bit "other" sometimes. he became exceedinlgy "other" after the age of 2, however.

Sorry Tigger, I can't explain "equal and opposite reaction" other than to say the reaction to anything is equal and opposite. I find it to be a universal rule even if you can't always see the reaction immediately (as in the case of MMR jabs).

Interestingly the name of Jayne Donegan cropped up earlier. She is a doctor who was asked to act as an expert in a case where parents differed over whether to give MMR or not. She ended up hauled up before the GMC (this bastion of impartiality and transparency has a bit of a record of making cases against doctors who have inconvienient things to report about vaccines).

They tried to get her struck off but she won her case.

Sorry to be repetative but could those who are so sure vaccines are carefully monitored for safety please explain to me how that fits in with the government admiting that its data of recorded adverse events is 90% inaccurate?

May well be that vaccines are fine for the majority but surely it is unacceptable to not being making an effort to gather accurate safety data and little effort to indentify and screen for those who are at risk for damage.

My child would not have received the vaccine that damaged her had proper screening been in place. What happened to her could have been easily avoided by a simple questionnaire. She is not alone in this.

There is no need for emotive conspiracy theories about "poisoning our children". The fact is that the safety procedures from the development of vaccines to the monitoring of useage in the wider population are woefully inadequate. (This is not my opinion it is the findings of experts including the Cohrane Review).

What exactly are we waiting for to sort out this outrageous state of affairs?

Tigger- in the court case you linked , if I am remebereing correctly the argument made by the Mother was not that her girls were part of the suspected sub group but simply that she was against all immunisations, perferring to use homoepathic medicine.
I think if she had been Peachy, the court may have taken a different view.

Kittywise I have a similar rule to your action/reaction one.

I say that there is no such thing as a free lunch. You can't muck around with hugely complex immune systems which differ from one individual to another, and bacterial and viral ecosystems and expect their to be no unforseen circumstances or adverse events.

Hence the need for rigorous safety procedures. Hence the need for transparancy. Hence the need to allow scientists to explore areas that may throw up inconvienient results withoug dragging them before the GMC and smearing their name in the press.

Kittywise

But what do you mean by the reaction to anything being equal and opposite? Can you explain what you mean by that with regards to vaccination?

beachcomber, a questionarrie would be good to ID particualr kids who may be succeptible.

Infromed consent is the only way to go.

Having just had a procedure on my eye, they tried to make sure I gave informed consent to the =injection. But it is hard as the treamtent i got hasn't been used for too long, and my condition meant it was off label for the drug. All meaning that the consent i gave exonerates the hospitla from any responsibiltiy from side effects I reckon

it's a minefiled, isn't it?
but it must be possble to ask a few quiestiond proir to the injection being given- and screen out some of the more complicated babies.

Possibly litchick. I just put the link up because what massivenorks had suggested reminded me of the MMR cases.

Tigger, Kittywise would be in the running for a Nobel Prize if she could give you a comprehensive answer to your question.

Vaccine manufacturers themselves don't know enough everything about how a vaccine and all its components act within the human immune system and body.

haven't read the whole 35 pages o fhtis thread , but i have seen 5 cases of measle sin older children this week, none of them vaccinated, all the parents demanding i do something to help their poor children and one child now in ITU , probably gogin to be left deaf and brain damaged. When i said to one set of parents that their precious 12 year old could be left deaf/blind or brain damaged because they hadn't vaccinated the girl herself piped up and was furious with them for not getting her vaccinated. The same idiot parents had dragged her round our local supermarket that morning and when i said they were spreading it to all the little ones who had not yet had a chance to be vaccinated their reply was " oh it is ok as everyone round here has it now it is a real epidemic " oh ffs , i despair......

should also add i do wonder how long it will be before we have a child "suing " their parents because they didn't vaccinate them

So trying to extrapolate a law of motion to explain the bodies response to a vaccine doesnt work?

"If my kids were malnourished, starving and generally had weakened immune systems then the chances are I would have them immunised if I could"

But luckily they are strong and unvaccinated and can therefore help to spread childhood diseases to those with weakened immune systems. How nice of you.

did the parents make a decision based on allergies etc not to vaccinate the girls.

(and as a fellow professional on here, i would wonder if you should post stuff like this on a public firum, tbh. I certainly wouldn't discuss spefici cases on the internet- for fear of my opinions being associated with a potentially identifyable child)