to be bl**dy furious that my DD has measles because other parents won't vaccinate?

[elportodelgato]

poor DD is only 11 mo and has horrid measles all over her, full of cold, streaming eyes, diarrhea, very unhappy and sleepy and limp. I am so so for her, but more I am absolutely bloody with idiot parents who won't have the MMR!

The doctor actually told me this morning that the reason it is so prevalent in our area is because of stupid people refusing to vaccinate their children and compromising the immunity of the whole group. So now my LO, who is only 2 months off having the vaccination herself, is really really sick because of other people's stupidity. It's making my blood boil! Do people not realise how dangerous it can be in little babies? And does anyone still seriously believe the so called "research" which claimed a link between MMR and autism? It has been so completely discredited in recent years you would think people would have got over it by now and started vaccinating again

Arrgh!!

make them wards of court for choosing not to have the mmr? ffs

yanbu!! Parents would rather risk there children catching these horrible illnesses because they dont want to have mmr. There is no concreate evidence about the side effects mmr can cause - and very very little risk compared to catching mealses etc - which can be life threating itself. I think its terrible. Hope ur lo gets better soon.

massivenorks they is no way I would ever sacrifice my kids' health for anyone else's. If you follow that silly train of thought then you should make all children wards of court if their parents drink, swear, smoke, eat shite food are overweight et etc etc. Compared to that lot not having your kids poisoned with the mmr is small fry.

Pinkyp and the others just dismssing the concerns of the parents on here out of hand., and what are your qualifications to be able to discredit a whole body of research and discussion re the possibilities of being autistic.

Do you know what a mitochondrion is, and how they work in the cell? and why there is a worry about certain children and how their mitochondira work.. meaning they may be more succeptible to certain problmes?

or did you just come up with that opinion thru "instinct" or something?

And, OP, I feel so sorry your little one is ill. it must be dreadful for you and her. i hope she recovers soon.

I agree that the concrete evidence is hard to come by.
How do you think they should design an experiment ot work out IF the MMR "causes" autism?

How exaclty do you wnat it done?

It is so hard for sceintists to show evidence. There are many many variables and it's pretty early days to be saying there in NO evidence. In fact there are alot of people looking at alot of things on a deep and cellular level. People much cleverer than you or I.
And the jury is still out....

unless the Daily Mail says something different today, eh?

oops, it's not just autism though is it, they are so many different issues and awful problems connected with this.

Yes,and at the very basic level, the definite measurabe and provable level, it's the mental health of parents who know they ahev a massively at risk child.

Why is that so undervalued?

it's funny, coz after ds3 regressed there was nobody banging on my door when I wept on the floor saying 'as you did your bit for society getting ds3 vaccinated we as a society are here to help you in retyurn, what do you need done?'

Oh no, they whinged that we had our child in their school or needed financial support as benefits claimants (CA and DLA)

how come these things don't work both ways?

no, it isn't just autism.

it's bloody depressing really.

it happnes all the time on here- people come on with a fixed point if view and insult those who dare to say there is anothr point of view...
There's loads to learn about all sorts in life and a closed mind will never ever progress.

My ds1 regressed at the age of 2.
his brother was just born, life changed alot and I was confident enough about him to give him the MMR.
He stopped eating for 6 months and eneded up with some strange behaviour patterns.
he had ocd type behaviour and emotionally regressed massively.

Will never ever know if it was the new baby, the MMR or if he was just destined to go frm the most placcid baby anyone every met to an angsty, sensory issues, ocd tyoe person.
Who will ever know?
But i wish I'd given single jabs

I don't think YABU - Kids in my sons nursery came down with measles because their parents didn't vaccinate. Thankfully my son has had his MMR but others were just shy of it - it put a lot of people's kids at risk and it also put at risk the staff at the nursery and any parent coming to collect a child - including those who are pregnant.

I was very worried about giving DS the MMR - i know the stories hav bee discredited and whilst there are 95% cases of positive outcomes, it is hard to ignore the 5% voices of people who swear their children were affected by the vaccine.

When DS had it he was fine and i felt silly for being so fearful. That having been said, i have waited off on his booster until he is over 2 as i think having it twice in 6 months is too much and the previous booster age was 3 years 4 months.

It's too hard for the govmnt to admit that a very very small percentage of children ARE damaged by something they support.
It's just too big an admission IMO.

It isn't just about Wakefiled, and it irritates me to think that everyone just follows the daily mail line...
a few yrs ago- MMR caused autism- andrew wakelfiled proved it- according to the media.
err, no , he suggested it would be worth investigating it. That's all he did, and his suggestion was orinted in a peer reviewed journal.

Some yrs late- "mmr is safe- wakefiled discredited".
err, maybe he has bene discredited/not dicredited. But that doesn't actually MAKE MMR SAFE now. it just means that maybe he was wrong/ or not.
There are many other epople looking at it, not just wakefiled.

Massivenorks, If I was in charge I'd force people like you to watch videos of the results

I do think those that claim the MMR is 100% safe are either naive or deliberately overtstating.
No drugs or vaccines are 100% safe. There is always risk. The balance is how great a risk. For most of us our children will be absolutely fine, but there is a sub group who won't be. If you suspect your child may be in that sub group then common sense dictates you'll avoid the vaccine.
I once spent a year representing drug companies and their insurers...I know, I know, I was cash strapped...and it became very plain that there is always risk but that the companies do the numbers. There is a certain type of tranc that causes suididal ideation in a certain sub group but it's still on the market. Over all the drug is very safe and useful, the sub group is small. So there you go.
There have been lots of drugs/vaccines/operations that everyone swore was safe but ultimately were not.

That said, I did give mine the MMR, being pursuded they were not poart of the sub group. I would not have done so if they had have been.

Out of interest does anyone know what the likely numbers would be if the government did admit?

Spot on post from litchick.

it's sad, but nothing is perfect.

It's grim for those who are damaged by the disease, and equally grim for those who are damaged by the vaccine invented to eradicate the disease.

Sceintists are mere mortals too.
Drug companies less so

Is anyone aware of the Ford thing yrs ago. it turned out that a number of the cars they produced malfunctioned- quite fatally in a number of instances.
They did the maths and worked out it would be cheaper to compensate the families of the people who were to die than to recall all of the cars. it took a while before they would finally admit that.

You just can't believe any big corporations/gvmnts. You need to look at good research and evaluate it all.
It's a shame in this day and age that the media are as thick as swineshit when it comes to science

We live in a democracy. We live in a time where the right to informed consent to medical procedures is considered an important human right. We have a medical system that is bound by the ethics of the Hippocratic Oath and the rulings of the Nuremberg Trials. Those who want forced vaccination and removal of basic human rights like informed consent are anti-democratic and in breach of civilised medical ethics and morals. They should be careful what they wish for, a regime which forced vaccination and took children away from their parents would be fascist and by my definition not a very pleasant one to live under.

You would be very popular with Merck, Glaxo et al though. They would be rubbing their hands all the way to the bank. They would also be relieved of all liability for vaccine damage and the paying of all compensation. This would be done purely at the tax payers expense if the state enforced vaccination. Hardly a way to motivate manufacturers to ensure rigorous safety testing and post marketing surveillance if they get off scott free when things go wrong.

You can see why pharma loves manditory vaccination in the US as they get a guaranteed market with no risk. Perhaps that is why the US schedule has a ridiculously heavy load of childhood vaccines. The children don't seem to be benefiting that much from it though. The last time I checked the US was country number 30 in rates of infant mortality which is pretty poor for the richest most vaccinated population in the world.

Thanks again to those who have posted kind words.

Also agree with saintly that the term "anti-vaccination" is just silly. It is just provocative, media spun, propagandist language used to simplify a hugely complex issue and to finger point in order to encourage stigmatisation.

I had nothing against vaccines until my eldest child's health was destroyed by them. I didn't feel political about the issue until I found out that my child was one of a hidden many.

Those who assert that vaccines are really safe, can I ask what you are basing your views on? Even the government and the manufacturers themselves don't have a clue how safe or unsafe vaccines are because they don't bother trying to accurately record adverse events. The government itself admits that only about 10% of adverse reactions get reported. In other words the safety data that we are basing our risk/benefit ratio on is 90% inaccurate. Not only is this unbelievable and unacceptable but it means that anyone who makes claims about vaccine safety in the general population is talking out of their arse because they don't have comprehensive data on which to base their observations.

Oopsagain
"It's too hard for the govmnt to admit that a very very small percentage of children ARE damaged by something they support.
It's just too big an admission IMO."

But the government does not claim that vaccines are 100% safe. It is known that there are risks for all vaccines, and a compensation scheme is in place to support children who have been damaged by vaccines. Surely having a compensation scheme is a clear admission of the possibility of damage?

i think parents would rather safety research was allowed to be carried out to protect vulnerable children rather than be compensated after the event.

'Here you are, your child had a rare but severe reaction to a vaccine that most children are fine with, here is X number of pounds, sorry your child needs life long care, go away now please'

Tigger, thanks for telling me that.
I have learned something new today.

i think the existance of the vaccine damage compo scheme must then be absolute evidence to show that it is NOT widely thought that the vaccines are NO risk.

proof that the govmnt admits there are kids damaged by MMR

And anyone trying to argue otherwise actaully looks a bit daft .

I have just googled compensation for vaccine damaged kids and stumbled on a thread on another forum in which a man was refused compensation for the death of his child after the vaccine- becuase the compensation is for children over two and she was less thatn two yrs old when she died.

FFS!

Scary isn't it? Especially when you consider that the heaviest vaccine load is given before the age of 2.

It's a truth though that every ACTION there is an equal and opposite REACTION.If you pump your small vunerable baby full of nasty chemicals( in the name of keeping them safe) there will be a reaction at SOME point and of some kind.

'It's a truth though that every ACTION there is an equal and opposite REACTION.If you pump your small vunerable baby full of nasty chemicals( in the name of keeping them safe) there will be a reaction at SOME point and of some kind.'

That's a bit of a luxury though in a country where children don't often die from childhood preventable diseases.

Ruty it's not a luxury it's a truth though, for everything you do there is a reaction.

If my kids were malnourished, starving and generally had weakened immune systems then the chances are I would have them immunised if I could.

Luckily they are strong and healthy and because of what happened to ds12 I chose not to give it to the others.

not ds 12!!! meant DS 1