to be bl**dy furious that my DD has measles because other parents won't vaccinate?

[elportodelgato]

poor DD is only 11 mo and has horrid measles all over her, full of cold, streaming eyes, diarrhea, very unhappy and sleepy and limp. I am so so for her, but more I am absolutely bloody with idiot parents who won't have the MMR!

The doctor actually told me this morning that the reason it is so prevalent in our area is because of stupid people refusing to vaccinate their children and compromising the immunity of the whole group. So now my LO, who is only 2 months off having the vaccination herself, is really really sick because of other people's stupidity. It's making my blood boil! Do people not realise how dangerous it can be in little babies? And does anyone still seriously believe the so called "research" which claimed a link between MMR and autism? It has been so completely discredited in recent years you would think people would have got over it by now and started vaccinating again

Arrgh!!

Cote - (hijacking again!) - Good luck with your CS. I hope you can hold on til then xx

novicemama - I can understand how you feel about your DD having measles and in your shoes I'm sure I'd feel the same (God knows my DD was bad enough with chicken pox!).

But my feeling was this, if I let my DD have the triple jab and something happened to her as a result (or apparent result) I would not know how to live with myself.

Surely if the situation were turned on its head you would feel a similar way?

As I've previously stated we were lucky to be able to pay for single jabs, but that's just not a possibility for some people. Why should they have to subject their child to something that in their heart-of-hearts they feel desperately uncomfortable about because they have no choice.

Wouldn't it be better if instead of pro-MMR parents and anti-MMR parents slugging it out on Mumsnet we all got together in the interest of all our children and future children and lobbied government for a real and affordable alternative and the freedom to make a choice?

The BCG was dropped from being routinely given as the "at risk" groups were still not having it,and those that aren't considered at risk were.It didn't affect the infection rate.

All babies considered to be at risk have BCG at birth.
Anyone else can still get it,but apparently you'd have to be living in close contact with someone at risk,for 3 mths+ for that to put you at risk.

I could be wrong here Leonie but you probably had MR or Measles.

I believe MMR was introduced in the late 80's/Early 90's.

ladylush - olivehooper posted this link earlier in the thread re immigration and rise in measles, mumps and rubella. Is Canadian study but presume it must apply everywhere

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17200218?dopt=AbstractPlus

Aah I see.

Spice - thanks. Briefly read the link. If it does apply in the UK also, it seems to contradict what the OPs GP said.

Beachcomber - very sorry to hear about your dd I too am concerned about levels of aluminium used in vaccinations. Also (completely unscientific theory - before I get slated)I am wondering what other illnesses/immune reactions vax can cause that haven't been identified. For example......auto-immune disease.

PMSL @ 'anti-vaccination movement' considering most of the people on here who haven't vaccinated have made that decision after watching their own child be damaged by a vaccine.

I was very pro-vaccination, I think most of us arguing that vaccines are not always without cost were at some stage pro-vaccination. All the people I know with completely unvaccinated (no vaccines at all, not just talking MMR) kids have older children who were fully vaccinated until they hit trouble. They're not part of some anti-vaccination movement determinted to rid the world of vaccines. People like JABS aren't even anti-vaccination. They, like Wakefield and Halvorsen are pro -safe vaccination. I'm always amazed that being pro safe vaccination is so controversial.

I don't think people can be regarded as idiots if they wait to or do not want to vaccinate their children, my 8 year old was given the mmr when she was due & had very bad complications resulting from it, this was over 6 years ago and at the time most were not aware of the hype. she was ongoingly ill for 8 months after! I had to document her problems/symptoms & each time i brought her back to the doctors had to send of information to the home office regarding it, not surprisingly then i waited until my second daughter was over 2 years of age & chose to have single vaccines with 6 week intervals to allow her immune system to get over one before giving her another at the cost of over £300.
I would say that it is the choice of the parent why they are unsure of this vaccine & each case is individual.

I hope your child gets better soon.

But organised resistance isn't what we are talking about on here. There happen to be a collection of individuals who are defending their choice not to vaccinate their children - either because of illness in their child, or because of previous adverse events in their other children.

They're not suggesting other's don't vaccinate. Just requesting that they're not called names for not doing so.

Ok might get flamed for this - but just wondering if there are any links to autism via the mother's health at the time of pregnancy and diet such as mercury levels/aluminium levels and essential fatty acids etc.

Plus (and just a thought as there actually could be reasons both ways)how were autistic children fed as baby's? Are there any links there?

there are so many potential triggers for autism, including those whilst the baby is in the womb. MMR is only one of many, and is probably responsible for around 6% of all autism cases. Paul Shattock, who investigates casein/gluten intolerance in autistic children, says that a lot of mothers who have autistic children were rhesus negative in pregnancy and had the anti-d jabs whilst pregnant [high dose of thimerosal] Obviously many women who have those jabs have NT children but for some mercury may have played a part.

you're so right LindenAvery, it's bound to be the mothers' fault one way or another

Always is Greensleeves - if it's their fault no-one else has to do anything about it. Ever.

You're right RUty, whihc I guess is why I choose to eleiminate all I am aware of as a possibility as far as possible (obv couldn't stop him getting a bad virus for example).... MMR, casein / gluten free diet (a PITA, not an easy option), BF etc.... once I have satisfied I have done my best I think I can live with the ones I don't know about, because I won't have anything much to beat myself up about; if I let him have MMR (or a piece of toast etc) then he got the ASD my mind wouldn't see the unknown triggers, just the ones I slipped up on.

Linde- baby feeding:

ds1- BF until 4 weeks when not growing; soya. DS3- BF / mix with lactofree formula (mis dx'd casein intol). Ds2 who has a linked disorder- BF unitl 4 months, Aptamil

No link I can see, though BF is for me the easiest way to minimise casein intake.

I did have a lot of mercury with ds3 through tuna, was pre advice from government. A classic example of not nowing something isn't OK won;t save you, possibly? Who knows?

Have come late to this debate but have just read all the way through and would like to say that I totally agree with Novicemama. Seems like she has been entirely reasonable and addressed all the criticisms of her. I manage a big team who have to write risk management reports all the time and (numbering aside ) if they presented me with her comments here I would be so happy - want a job novicemama?

Seriously, I understand why this is an emotive issue for people but we need huge buy-in from the public in order to protect everyone.

If I was in charge of public health I would make children of those who refuse mmr wards of court temporarily so they have to get it done, and big fines for those parents who refuse.

Hope your LO okay novice.

Really massivenorks? if the link was proved in 5, 10 yrras then I take it you'd be eprsonally happy to face each and every one of those famillies?

At the rates needed for this herd immunity which I understand to be a flawed concept to work you could still vaccinate enough people without touching those whose children have a proven genetic susceptibility to ASD. or, to save a frigging fortune on ward of court cases you could just offer measles jabs to us, I'd love ds4 to have one but simply cannot afford until DH back in work.

As longa s Scientific people that I respect and know the backgrounds (damned imrpessive) of feel the possibility of the subgroup link is there then that is where I will choose to palce my trust. Because it is a trust issue. Most people do not fall into that subgroup, after all.