to be bl**dy furious that my DD has measles because other parents won't vaccinate?

[elportodelgato]

poor DD is only 11 mo and has horrid measles all over her, full of cold, streaming eyes, diarrhea, very unhappy and sleepy and limp. I am so so for her, but more I am absolutely bloody with idiot parents who won't have the MMR!

The doctor actually told me this morning that the reason it is so prevalent in our area is because of stupid people refusing to vaccinate their children and compromising the immunity of the whole group. So now my LO, who is only 2 months off having the vaccination herself, is really really sick because of other people's stupidity. It's making my blood boil! Do people not realise how dangerous it can be in little babies? And does anyone still seriously believe the so called "research" which claimed a link between MMR and autism? It has been so completely discredited in recent years you would think people would have got over it by now and started vaccinating again

Arrgh!!

saintly - we cross posted
peachy - I know better than to get too involved in this sort of "debate" and just thought the debate might be more useful if the references provided were a bit more credible
beachcomber - thanks for the offer but am not interested in trawling through website of health pressure groups to find their selectively chosen links

FWIW all 4 of my dcs have had MMR and I had no doubts about having them vaccinated

"thanks for the offer but am not interested in trawling through website of health pressure groups to find their selectively chosen links"

but you'll quite happily believe the carefully selected links of the Government backed websites showing the opposite

OP I am sorry your dc is so ill However, I suggest you look back at previous threads to explore some of the reasons why parents don't opt for the combined vax. I suspect some people may resent having to repeat themselves. Suffice to say, there are very good reasons why some people don't give their dc the MMR. From the threads I've read on here it seems the majority do give single vaccines - particularly Measles.

yes kat - in children mumps is a mild illness. A third of children who have mumps have no symptoms at all. Mumps is very much more serious in adults.

Before the introduction of MMR children caught mumps and circulating levels of disease meant that immunity to mumps in the adult population was high.

A vaccine was introduced. But it didn't work as well as it was supposed to. And it appears that vaccine immunity wanes - perhaps more than expected. Lower levels of circulating mumps will mean people 's immune systems aren't given repeated natural boosters from contact with the disease.

So adults catch it in increasing numbers.

Mumps wasn't notifiable before MMR introduction so there are no figures for teens/adults catching it before the intro of MMR, but if you look at FAQ's figures she linked to you can see that the number of adult cases has increased since MMR was introduced in 1989 (after an initial drop). If this is being caused by waning vaccine immunity in 20 year olds then really they should be dishing out an MMR booster to this group.

The introduction of a vaccine for a childhood illness always risks pushing the illness into an adult population-it's why it's important that accurate efficacy data is collected before introduction - but these tend to be over-estimated (quick search of pub-med will show you that).

That's how I feel about Richard Halvorsen

I do admire all of you who have the drive and energy to post on this subject yet again.

I have every sympathy with you OP. Both my dcs had MMR with no problems and I didn't really have to wrestle with my conscience over it. But there is a small group for whom MMR is not the right choice. They will never vaccinate (at least not while the triple is still the only choice) so a 100% take-up rate is nigh on impossible and so, unfortunately, some unlucky children will get the disease.

You must realise how inflammatory it is to accuse anyone who chooses not to vaccinate or not to give the MMR of being "stupid".

why, because he wanted to break into journalism? Care to elaborate?

but paisley - much of the stuff that has been posted on this thread has not been from him

and lets face it - I'd heard of neither Goldacre or Halver whatshisname really - but a quick google tells me that goldacre is really a journalist at least Halver whatshisname does seem to have some more concrete linnks to vaccinations

Halvorsen is also a GP

paisleyleaf i'd still like to hear what you have against Halvorsen. Is it that he wrote a book?

Oh another one of these? Have all the usual things been been said from all the other threads?

Has anyone pointed out that if the government thought it was so important to have vaccinations they would allow the singles? They have made it clear they would rather people didn't vaccinate at all than have singles.

I hope someone has explained also that people don't all die from measles. I do remember it was quite uncomfortable when I had it. I even had to take time off school. That was before they invented MMR.

Have we covered the fact that the ones screaming that the MMR is safe usually say "because my GP/HV/Friend said so" and are generally to lazy to do more read a comic newspaper article about it. While the ones choosing not to risk it have usually done extensive research into the facts.

I only skimmed a bit since we've had so many of these, but I gather someone wants to stop non vaccinated children getting medical care? There's usually one of those, but luckily civilised countries have laws (and morals) against those sort of things.

I suppose we've had the "but that was all discredited" line. Do people not realise that it was not discredited at all? Another case of "well I'm sure it was. My friend/columnist/milkman said it was"

Ruty, do mean me? Richard Halvorsen, why?
I have no idea about him wanting to break into journalism
just, like I said earlier, about how much money he is making from a public scare. His singles clinic, books, but mostly how much his fee has been as a witness in previous litigations (money from legal aid).
But yes, I guess he will be getting money writing articles too.

onagar - yep it's all been covered

"just, like I said earlier, about how much money he is making from a public scare. "

and of course the MMR manufacturers aren't making any money from the MMR................

"but paisley - much of the stuff that has been posted on this thread has not been from him"

I've seen him several times on this thread
and in the links offerred

Well I've mentioned Halvorsen in his role as an NHS doctor offering singles on the NHS. So not making any money from it.

yes but this thread is several hundreds posts long. Just because his name is mentioned a few times does not mean that all the links are based around him - there's quite a few to WHO and HPA and NHS (off the top of my head)

well he is hardly making money from not giving vaccines to children he think are at risk. When my ds was bleeding in his gut constantly he recommended no vaccines at all [he did recommend vaccines when his gut had healed] But hey, he must just be in it for the money.

Actually Halvorsen is a brave man. Didn't the last expert witness in an MMR case end up at the GMC (which she won)? And I can think of another who has come under a smear campaign.

ruty I think you are wasting your breath. I think in all the threads I've read on this subject I've only seen one die hard MMR evangelist admit that there may just be some valid reasons why a parent might choose singles or not vaccinate.

OP, BOTH my baby girls got measles before they are 12 months. It was very scarcy and horrible. Hope your LO feels better soon, and also rememeber posting the same sort of post at the time.
I think if you dont have MMR then have single!

This is a hard one, I can see both sides TBH. My 2 have been vaccinated very recently, I was very worried by the controversy at the time, and made the hard decision that now measles cases are going up I would go ahead. I don't think parents who've decided against MMR are stupid, there are instances where the vaccine wouldn't really be appropriate, because of the risk, however small. The fact is there are parents who insist their children developed problems after MMR, and it wouldn't be right to minimise that.OP, I wish your child better, and I wouldn't minimise your anger either, because your child is sick.

Have not read all this thread because I've seen enough of them on mnet to know how they end up, so am not going to join in the bunfight as the two sides are irreconcilable.

But OP, just to add to the supportive voices, YA certainly NBU. I hope your dd is better soon and you have all my sympathy.