to be bl**dy furious that my DD has measles because other parents won't vaccinate?

[elportodelgato]

poor DD is only 11 mo and has horrid measles all over her, full of cold, streaming eyes, diarrhea, very unhappy and sleepy and limp. I am so so for her, but more I am absolutely bloody with idiot parents who won't have the MMR!

The doctor actually told me this morning that the reason it is so prevalent in our area is because of stupid people refusing to vaccinate their children and compromising the immunity of the whole group. So now my LO, who is only 2 months off having the vaccination herself, is really really sick because of other people's stupidity. It's making my blood boil! Do people not realise how dangerous it can be in little babies? And does anyone still seriously believe the so called "research" which claimed a link between MMR and autism? It has been so completely discredited in recent years you would think people would have got over it by now and started vaccinating again

Arrgh!!

Agreed ruty. Although I do think the OP kind of set the tone. I have just reported Kingprawn as I'm ashamed to read stuff like this on MN.

sorry that was a bit light, considering

Beach I'm sorry you've been so troubled by this terrible insensitivity.

I kind of understand why the OP is angry. She's worried about her little girl, fair enough. But some of the other comments here...I truly don't know whether to laugh or cry. And I am someone who can see both sides of the debate.

Riven are you refering to Jayne Donegan?

Fantastic women.

kayharker - I of course agree that the state should provide compensation if there is a proven link i.e as there was with thalidomide

Riven - You have illustrated my point perfectly. You may well know your child best but vaccination is not just about your child. If vaccinations did not have the herd aspect then by all means leave it up to parents and incidentally I don't see any of the anti-vaccinators offereing to not get medical help if their child becomes ill with measles etc! To put a twist on Kay's point how would you feel if treatment for measles etc was denied to those whose parents had chosen not to take the vaccine?

sorry, didn't mean to make out i could see both sides of debate when others couldn't. I just meant I am sympathetic to both sides of argument. Not on this thread though.

slightlycrumpled - please point out which one?

Don't tell me I think anyone's children are more important than anyone else's - I have told you this isn't true. That is a personal attack on me. I was trying to establish my point - and bored I'm not really sure what your point is. I was trying to be constructive with my suggestion that people who choose to have their children vaccinated shouldn't be decieved into thinking that they won't get the disease. Yes the more people who choose not to vaccinate the less viable the vaccination programme becomes. I never said anyone should be forced to vaccinate - however, if we believe in public health some degree of social conscience is required. I do know of people who have chosen not to vaccinate, partly because the majority do, and they feel their childrem will be protected if they don't but also won't face any of the percieved risks.

'I've worked with autistic children so you don't need to explain'

I used to work with ASD kids

#Your post made me laugh, and almost sob

When it is YOUR child being restrained on the roof, being assessed for anorexia (erm can't that sometimes be fatal?) at 9, violent, or can hardly talk, cries just because his shoes have been replaced or you turn the wrong way at a traffic lights ...

reall, heartbreaking crying not tantrums

then it is very very different.

I would go to prison if it became compulsory. Not happily, but I would. Someone may well take my child in without my permission but I will never allow it.

Riven - Some of the general public are highly educated many are not, few are experts on immunisations and vaccinations.

Thanks bored. Am kind of used to it now, although I'm still shocked by the fact that society (as shown on this thread) is not really bothered by individuals being maimed and killed by public health policy. (Just as long as it doesn't actually happen to them like).

I'm alright Jackism in all its sickening glory.

It is unusual to have quite such a display of ignorance on MN though. Usually the debate is of a rather higher and more interesting quality.

No that's just more guff.

Would you mind awfully just answering my question which, when we have stripped away the guff, is what it's all about.

five out of a hundred children vaccinated, not immune

ten out of a hundred children not vaccinated, not immune

but those ten should take a risk to protect the five?

IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN

"few are experts on immunisations and vaccinations. "

same can be said for most of the HCP's who profess the governments official line on MMR...........

excuse unfortunate cross post Beach

yes -- dreadful

Thank you MNHQ for your prompt action.

Many of the Non MMR choosers on this thread have degree or post degree level education, often including Science (just a year of Undergrad psych myself as part of Arts but even that is pretty useful in reading research papers)

there are some incredibly intelligent people on here, just of the few I know the bckgrounds of

I haven't read anything but op.

Sorry you dd is ill, most likely she'll be fine though.
I am not an idiot though, nor am I stupid or any other unpleasant words you might chose to use.

Only my eldest child has had mmr, I have chosen not to have the other 5 done.

What a nasty op though it doesn't make me feel sympathy for you because of what you have written

My Ds was vaccinated with MMR when it first came out. At that time, we were told it was a 'one off' injection and would confer lifelong immunity.He had his one injection. Ds 2 was also vaccinated.Again, one injection. Skip forward to when DS1 started school, and we were told that 'a batch of vaccine' in the local area had 'failed' and therefore all children who had been vaccinated from that batch, would have a 'booster' just as they started school. Fair enough. DS1 was boosted. But then, as DS2 was about to start school, the report was published stating that it was the second injection that was possibly responsible for the problems. We also got the same letter about the batch failing and DS2 needing a booster. He did not get boosted as I felt I was lied to by the health authorities.

FWIW, about a year after DS1 had the 'booster',he caught measles. DS2 who had only had one injection from the 'failed' batch, did not catch it from him!

So, I am sorry that your child has measles, BUT, YABU to be so angry with parents who have chosen, for what are to them, perfectly reasonable reasons not to have their children vaccinated.

Actually beachcomber some of us are concerned about those who are maimed and killed by diseases for which there are vaccines. Interesting that you see the alright jackism coming from those who in your view are taking the risks. (I am assuming you see the MMR as risky)

The thing is, Prawn, if you can't even answer this question honestly, then there's no point in moving on to the risk-benefit analysis, or the hypothetical boy next door with leukaemia, or any of the other facets of this sad debate.

If you don't know what you think about this most basic point then it's not that you don't know that much about it but I suspect you haven't thought that much about it.

FAQ - Sadly you are right, IMO governments don't always know best but that is an argument for changing the establishment not an argument against vaccinations.

OP, your poor baby, I do feel for her and you!

I wish immunization was compulsory in UK as I understand it is in some countries. I do believe potential ill effects of a system of vaccination are tiny in comparison to letting disease run its natural course.

London something has become very clear.

Beachcomber knows a great deal more about this than you do.