to be bl**dy furious that my DD has measles because other parents won't vaccinate?

[elportodelgato]

poor DD is only 11 mo and has horrid measles all over her, full of cold, streaming eyes, diarrhea, very unhappy and sleepy and limp. I am so so for her, but more I am absolutely bloody with idiot parents who won't have the MMR!

The doctor actually told me this morning that the reason it is so prevalent in our area is because of stupid people refusing to vaccinate their children and compromising the immunity of the whole group. So now my LO, who is only 2 months off having the vaccination herself, is really really sick because of other people's stupidity. It's making my blood boil! Do people not realise how dangerous it can be in little babies? And does anyone still seriously believe the so called "research" which claimed a link between MMR and autism? It has been so completely discredited in recent years you would think people would have got over it by now and started vaccinating again

Arrgh!!

Fleetingglimpse personal attack does not refute an argument nor does it dismantle the science behind it.

Would you care to actually discuss some of the research and science rather than engage in ad hominen argument?

Might be a bit more interesting. If you have anything of substance to give to the discussion I would be very interested to hear it.

I would love somebody to show me something that would show me that this whole sorry tale isn't true.

compulsory - don't be ridiculous! what about children who are allergic to egg, it could kill them.

bored - you've not really got it. This is the problem with expecting the general public to make informed choices - they have to be able to understand the argument!

which bit have i not got prawn

FAQ - For all children who are able tobe immunised I realise there are some children for whom it is not possible for health reasons.

Leonie - Not in the slightest. We have laws that are designed to protect the individual and the group. I.e the drink driving laws are there to stop people hurting themselves and each other. Why should parents be able to take risks that could hurt their own children and WILL hurt the group.

xfabba - I mean compulsory for all children who don't have a specific allergy etc. This would actually help those children who are unable to be immunised, those are the ones who I feel for most TBH.

i suppose what im trying to say is that the mmr wasnt the best thing for my daughter,but it was for my other 7 kids, if there was a point of easy access for single vaccines i would have went with them instead... i think the goverment pushes the mmr because its more cost effective on the nhs, but this doesnt mean its the best option for everyone. what is wrong is that the options for single jags have been taken away from the nhs... so its either mmr or nothing (unless you can afford private).in our case i believe it is the rubella part of the mmr that damaged my dd, i nearly died from the single rubella injection myself, there is perhaps something genetic i passed on to her ?.

I am fine with people disagreeing most vehemently with someone else's choice for their children, but I think things get very scary when we start mandating compulsory medical treatment.

Riven - I'm all for parents educating themselves about vaccines and diseases prior to vaccinating as well - I merely focused on the non-informed non-vaccinators because it was the non-vaccinators the OP was talking about. I don't think anyone should blindly presume that medical professionals are infallible, but neither do I think they should discount everything they say either. You're right - sheep either way is a bad thing.

londoneone, slight flaw with your suggestion, how do you know whos allergic to what injection if they've never had it before?

the fact if all children were vaccinated - the 5% for whom the vaccine didn't work and those who couldn't be vaccinated due to drug reactions would be protected because the disease wouldn't have enough hosts for it to spread. You could argue that it is the manufacurers responsibilit but then most drugs have some degree of failure.

oh and vaccines dont damage?! yeah right !tell that to the vetrens with "gulf war syndrome" , is that not caused by a cocktain of vaccines too? .

and what of adults who have not been vaccinated?

or of those children who didn't have one of the contraindications recognised (by HCP's) prior to being given MMR.

If they have an allergy as per the contra indicators, surely, as with any allergy a reaction to the first dose of whichever vacccine caused a reaction may not have been very severe - but the another (with the MMR) could surely cause it.

For example I have been told that if I'm ever stung by a wasp again to be very alert as to what happens to me - my first (and only) wasp sting landed me with a very large, very red swollen arm, and I was told that the potential is there for a much more severe reaction if I were to be stung again...........touch wood 15yrs after the first sting I've not been stung again.......

Rubyblueberry the research shows that the acquired immunity that a baby gets from their mother steeply declines around the age of 8 weeks,hence the start of the Childhood Imms programme,although some vaccines like measles cannot be "utilised" properly until 12 months plus.

To the OP YANBU to be fed up that your dd has measles. I hope she is soon on the mend, YABU however to believe that parents that don't immunise do so lightly or without full understanding of the consequences.

DS2 had all of his immunisations, although very late. We eventually did the baby ones after he had been very poorly and it was pointed out to me that if he were to catch whooping cough he would be in very serious trouble indeed. With the MMR whilst he didn't regress (he has special needs anyway) he did become poorly and when we got his diagnosis we discovered that with the type of immune system he has he should not be having these type of vaccines anyway.

Some peads/ immunologists do advise against vaccinations for some children. DS2 should really have a flu and pnuemonia vaccine and he did this year, but only after full screening of his immune system beforehand.

oops should be "cocktail " not " cocktain"

So you are saying that although the number of non-vaccinated non-immune outnumbers the vaccinated non immune, the non-vaccinating parents should risk their children to protect the vaccinators' choice?

You are not suggesting that the rest of the vaccinated population is at risk?

You are saying that the vaccinated child is more important than the non vaccinated child?

drlove - There are various groups who cannot be vaccinated for establ;ished medical reasons i.e the egg allergy for example. To take your example further we better not feed children any new food or ever give them any drugs as they COULD be allergic!

Kayharker - Take drink driving then do you think that it should be compulsory to not be drunk when you drive? Sometimes things have to be enforced to protect people.

"although some vaccines like measles cannot be "utilised" properly until 12 months plus. "

so why does the WHO recommend that babies get a measles jab before their first birthday (not MMR - just the single one)

Beachcomer, as I said the court finding in America is quite recent. Cases like Hannah Polling who have claimed compensation would not be successful now, As I said before, science, research etc is updated all the time.
That Hannah Polling case is an odd one as to what disorder she does have. And also, she was vaccinated against 9 diseases in one go....as much as I decided it the right thing to vaccinate my DD, I can't believe I'd let her have 9 all at once.

drlove8, I've worked with autistic children so you don't need to explain.
I didn't say "the MMR 'can't' cause autism", I did say: "There are children who perhaps shouldn't be vaccinated due to health issues. But I can't see that the MMR is systematically giving healthy children autism."

In fact I think you are saying that one vaccinated child is more important than any number of non vaccinated children. The rights thereof.

I didn't say anyone was more important - just clarifying how the vaccination programme works. I think parents of children who are vaccinated, perhaps should consider trying to find out if the vaccination worked - before it didn't really matter as enough children took up the vaccination to make it safe for those that the vaccination didn't work for.