to be bl**dy furious that my DD has measles because other parents won't vaccinate?

[elportodelgato]

poor DD is only 11 mo and has horrid measles all over her, full of cold, streaming eyes, diarrhea, very unhappy and sleepy and limp. I am so so for her, but more I am absolutely bloody with idiot parents who won't have the MMR!

The doctor actually told me this morning that the reason it is so prevalent in our area is because of stupid people refusing to vaccinate their children and compromising the immunity of the whole group. So now my LO, who is only 2 months off having the vaccination herself, is really really sick because of other people's stupidity. It's making my blood boil! Do people not realise how dangerous it can be in little babies? And does anyone still seriously believe the so called "research" which claimed a link between MMR and autism? It has been so completely discredited in recent years you would think people would have got over it by now and started vaccinating again

Arrgh!!

pmsl - you say what you want - i'm not bothered by it - i thought you were just not reading carefully - my mistake, you just can't see anyone else's opinion but your own. I won't bother with ya anymore then. LOL No point having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

not everyone has a choice whether to vaccinate , some people are highly alergic to the vaccines. i had a severe reaction to rubella jag myself at 13. wondered whether to give mmr to twins,went ahead with it , youngest twin has developmental delays/ suspected autism which prior to mmmr she was perfectly "normal" child...any words she spoke, she lost , normal eye contact was lost and she retreated into her own little world....She has not had the booster, and will not have the booster. re the herd immunity....example: mass vacination has erradicated smallpox in uk... there is generation of kids who have never been exposed to smallpox of any kind.... if smallpox suddenly reappeard , it would have a more devestating affect on the population than before the vaccine was introduced, the natural resistance to theses diseases are being bred out.viruses mutate anyway, so wheres the guarentee that the vaccine would be 100% effective against the disease it was given for ?.Some vaccines do not take in every child , there has been cases of children who have been vaccinated and later found to have no immunity , this is why boosters are offered .but whos to say the boosters will catch all those kids second time?... so you could in theory have vaccinated your child, boosted your child and your child still could have no immunity toward the original disease, whatever it may be (mumps ,measels ect). So OP YABU to assume that vaccine = immunity and non-vacination caused disease.

OP.... I do hope your LO is better soon, and that she isnt too unwell with measles. hope youve been told to keep her out of bright lighting as sometimes measles can make your eyes sore, a nice cool, dark room with lots of drinks and hugs from mummy will soon make her feel a little better!watch her temperature ,that it doesnt skyrocket...if it does a&e!even if you have to get her a fan in her room so she stays comfortable.

Dr8love - that's the point - not every child will be immune even after the vaccination and the booster - so you need pretty much everyone to have it to achieve the herd immunity level within the population. Even then there will be occasional outbreaks when the % of the population who are non-immune reaches the required level for an outbreak but this will happen very rarely - and our babies who are too young to be vaccinated and the children who don't become immune despite being vaccinated will be relatively safe. But it takes pretty much everyone to have the vaccination to reach these levels, hence we are seeing regular outbreaks now. Also being compounded by unvaccinated immigrants - but I don't want to get all Daily Mail about it.

you're treating this as a battle of wits?

I thought this was about you and a few other poorly informed and insensitive people calling others idiots, and then puffing your chest out about it, then there was the bit where you refused to read up anything you don't like on the subject

really -- you should realise this is a difficult subject

but you can go ahead and LOL and and pmsl if that's how it takes you

Novicemama YANBU
I'd feel the same as you and I hope your DD gets better soon.

There are children who perhaps shouldn't be vaccinated due to health issues. But I can't see that the MMR is systematically giving healthy children autism.

That Richard Halvorsen is among people who have made a lot (really a lot) of money from a public scare.....a few thousand pounds as witness in litigations (- legal aid money aimed at helping the poor)...as well as his singles clinic, books and so on.

I feel insulted that people think that because I did vaccinate, I can't have done any research. As if.

Many of those links above are pretty dated now. It's only recently the court in America ruled that there is no link between MMR and autism (February this year), as science and research is updated all the time.

king prawn

are you saying that a vaccinated child may be immune against one child with measles, but is not immune to three or four children with measles?

No - when there are too many children unvaccinated (and that includes those who the vaccine doesn't work for) in the population, a measles outbreak will occur. We wouldn't see any measles cases if everyone was vaccinated even if it didn't work for 1% of them because the levels of non-immune people in the population wouldn't be high enough for the disease to spread - hence no outbreak.

I am sorry that your DD is unwell But there are many reasons why some people choose not to vaccinate. It is a parent's right to decide whether to vaccinate or not.

Measles are horrible and there can be complications but before vaccinations hundreds and hundreds of us had measles and were fine! Complications can arise from any condition even a common cold.

Everyone has the right to decide whether to have their child vaccinated.

Hope your Dd is better soon.

Saintlydamturnip lady Thanks - I am assuming that the transcripts WILL be made available at some stage. I think that's the difficulty with the whole debate. I am very pro MMR based on my reading/research at the time - thankfully my kids are all past the stage of Do I or don't I now. I view everything anti MMR with a healthy dose of cynicism - I also find myself questioning everything pro - vaccine. Who wrote it ? What are there interests ? Who pays them etc etc. I do think it's a huge problem with getting to the crux of the issue - so much has been 'written', reported, mis reported over the past years that it's almost impossible for any new parent to wade through the immense 'propoganda' for want of a better word from both sides.

I know measles can be quite serious and in rare cases even fatal but I would urge people not to get over concerned about it, I'm not that ancient and when I was young we were all bundled in together to catch anything that was going. For some strange reason no amount of exposure got me measles or rubella ( which I had as an adult, and was quite ill with) Instances of nasty repercussions must have been very few and far between as I have never heard of anyone with a disability from the large numbers of children I was at school with. My children had the first dose of MMR but not the booster as I could see no good reason to put them through that.

Sassybeast - I feel exactly the same way. I have given my DS single jabs because there is autism in my family and I have read enough to concern me about the MMR. The thing is that there doesn't seem to be anybody who doesn't have an agenda so it's very difficult to get to the bottom of it all. Plus it's all terribly complicated!

Triggles I think it is very noble of you to not tell people what to think. However, I am asking you and others who have strong opinions on this matter to please link to some of the information that has allowed them to come to the conclusions they have reached.

Otherwise it looks like you have done just what you claim others have which is to base your opinions on some article in the mainstream media or some other weak source.

Not only is there a lot of comprehensive science which links MMR to autism but there are thousands of children who have reacted badly to MMR and then gone on to develop autism. What is your explanation for this? (BTW the 'improved diagnosis' theory is flawed and been shown by robust studies to be so time and time again. The IOM has now admitted that it is looking for environmental causes, among which are vaccines and other sources of toxic metals such as mercury and aluminium).

I too am permanently deaf in one ear as a result of measles when I was a child-the autism link has been scientifically disproven now.

take a population of children over one with equal health status

the vaccine is supposed to be 95 pc effective

so in a hundred children, five will be non immune

imagine a further 5pc of that hundred fail to vaccinate

so 10pc total will probably catch it as it's so contagious

so far you have the interests of five vaccinated non immune against five non vaccinated non immune children

a fair balance, no? why should the interests of those five vaccinated supercede the interests of the five non-vaccinated, and the five non vaccinated take a risk to protect the five vaccinated? better still, why not blame the manufacturer for selling them a product that doesn't work?

Now imagine that 10pc fail to vaccinate. The balance changes. 15pc of children will probably catch measles. This time five of them are vaccinated, ten of them are not. Now you are asking ten children to take a risk to protect five children.

The numbers of non vaccinated go up, and it becomes less and less viable to propose that the larger number takes a risk to protect the smaller number.

In all this time, the number of vulnerable vaccinated children remains the same. Five. Ninety five per cent of vaccinated children will not catch measles.

It is rather difficult to justify say, 20 children taking a unknown risk to protect 5 children from an unknown risk.

Unless of course you ARE saying that exposure to measles virus reduces vaccine immunity, and endangers a larger part of the vaccinated population.

Paisleyleaf the court that you seem to think has ruled no link between MMR and autism is examining 4800 cases of vaccine damage linked to autism. So far only a few test cases have been heard.

How do you explain that this court that you claim has refuted any link has recently conceded the case of Hannah Poling's vaccine induced autism and is awarding her compensation?

Either vaccines can trigger autism sometimes or they can't, ever. It seems here that the HHS can't make its mind up.

I can understand where you are coming from...and my boys were all vaccinated, so, we are obvioulsy happy enough with vaccines...however...I think if the governemnt would work on ways of identifying children that possibly could have problems with teh vaccine, maybe parents would be happier to give the vaccines....

Beachcomber you are the very definition of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.

Childhood vaccination programmes are probably the greatest public health achivement/benfit we have (with the exception of clean drinking water). They rely on a certain level of uptake to work and for that reason it should not be a matter of choice for parents, it should be compulsory.

absolutely pathetically stupid suggestion

"pmsl - you say what you want - i'm not bothered by it - i thought you were just not reading carefully - my mistake, you just can't see anyone else's opinion but your own."

actually, speaking as a former "anit" Anti-MMRer (ie I used to feel the same as the OP about those who didn't give their DC the MMR) I think it's more than the Anti Anit-MMRers only like to believe their side is correct, while those that have chosen to not vaccinate their children tend (on the whole) to be supportive of anyone who chosses to MMR or not.

paisley re: the mmr cant cause autism, you are invited anytime you like to my home, where you can see first hand my dd4 in major meltdown... unless you have known a child who has an autism spectrum disorder you cant really explain in words... dd4 was a normal child, infact i would have said prior to the mmr she was ahead of her twin developmentaly, she was a different child then.She is now nearly four ,cannot communicate or interact with others, refuses to eat,is still in a buggy as she cant walk far because she tires easily, wont sleep and screams and is violent,bites and kicks. The slightest thing can set her off... a smell,too many people around, going to a strange place, a different food,the feel of clothing, anything at all.had i known the "safe" jag would have done this to my child i would never have given her it. i have videos of her before the jag, crawling, almost walking ,saying mummy ,saying daddy ,putting her hands out and asking for a drink of milk, smileing.things that she couldnt do after the mmr.

"reason it should not be a matter of choice for parents, it should be compulsory. "

for all children???