to be bl**dy furious that my DD has measles because other parents won't vaccinate?

[elportodelgato]

poor DD is only 11 mo and has horrid measles all over her, full of cold, streaming eyes, diarrhea, very unhappy and sleepy and limp. I am so so for her, but more I am absolutely bloody with idiot parents who won't have the MMR!

The doctor actually told me this morning that the reason it is so prevalent in our area is because of stupid people refusing to vaccinate their children and compromising the immunity of the whole group. So now my LO, who is only 2 months off having the vaccination herself, is really really sick because of other people's stupidity. It's making my blood boil! Do people not realise how dangerous it can be in little babies? And does anyone still seriously believe the so called "research" which claimed a link between MMR and autism? It has been so completely discredited in recent years you would think people would have got over it by now and started vaccinating again

Arrgh!!

Beach comber - is your post meant to be serious or is it tongue in cheek ? Wakefields report was described by the Lancet as 'fatally flawed'. The man paid parents to donate their kids blood at a birthday party for his 'research'

OP YANBU. Hope your little one recovers soon

YANBU. I have had my DC's vaccinated. As have my people who I worked with...nurses, doctors, pharmacists. The benefits outweigh the risks IMHO.

Which MMR hoax would this be?

There hasn't been a single study that has refuted the original Lancet paper. In fact not one has even tested Wakefield's hypothesis.

"something which after all, the vast majority of people have no reason to be aware that they even have."

really - I thought HPV was a "common denominator" in cervical cancer?

The fault lies not with the parents who do not give their child(ren) the MMR but with the government who will not allow the perfectly viable alternative of single jabs.

The idea that you should force parents to take what they deem to be an unacceptable risk to their child just for the sake of your own precious offspring is disgusting.

Sassybeast - at the GMC Richard Horton (editor of the Lancet) under oath described Wakefield's paper as still standing and of being an excellent example of a case series.

"The benefits outweigh the risks IMHO"

Yes, in your opinion. that doesn't give you the right to force that opinion onto others.

"THE POINT was that we each assess the risks as WE see them." agreed!

But the problem is that people are basing their assessment of this risk on really screwy logic and misinformation, and putting not only themselves but others at risk unnecessarily.

Might I suggest that the OP and some of the others on this thread who have me holding my head in my hands at their ignorance when it comes to MMR/autism research also read this presentation from the honourable Dr Wakefield himself;

Slight warning there are a couple of photos of sick children which could be distressing especially if you have kids around

Also the excellent presentation by Brian Jepson, doctor and father of a child with autism

Indeed anyone actually interested in becoming informed on this subject rather than gibbering nonsense would do well to read the whole website, in particular, the conference presentations and the research section.

I may be wrong but I believe the reason why the rubella vaccine was included within MMR was because of the number of women who were not immune to rubella during childbearing age.

Although girls were vaccinated during puberty it was not enough to protect those that did not aquire immunity this way and never would. Imagine if you were responsible enough to check your rubella immune status before planning to have children to be told that the rubella vaccination was ineffective and therefore should not have children.Plus there are always those that have no plans to have children who fall pregnant.

I am not an idiot and name calling on such an emotive subject is rong

I am intelligent, have read available info and made decidions based on my family

That is not the actions of an idiot. It is of course possible my worst fears are wrong; I will still have done my best which still does not mark me out as an idiot IMO.

I can't close my eyes and take a chance with ds4 as I did with the others because the results- or what I believe to be the results- of MMR are in my face every day. When I go to the bank to see how much CA for me or DLA for the boys there is left; when I take ds3 to the SNU bus or fill in forms or attend IEP meetings at the school (with 3 on SA+ or above thats too often), when I dress ds3 in joggers instead of uniform becuase he cannot manage trousers very well..... little, pervasive things

I might be many things but idiot I am not

To look at this anther way, the OP is to blame for her DD having measles since she made the choice to take her out in public, where germs etc are rife, before she was fully vaccinated. If she'd kept her at home, none of this would have happened.

Incidentally this is what Horton (editor of Lancet) said about the original paper whilst under oath:

Horton said that the Lancet paper was an excellent example of a ?case series?. That this was a standard and entirely reputable way of reporting on a possible new syndrome. He likened it to how the first cases of HIV/AIDS were reported in the early 80s and how the new variant CJD issue broke more recently. He said unequivocally that the science reported in the 1998 Lancet paper ?still stands? and that he 'wished, wished, wished' that the clock could be turned back and the paper be considered in the light it was first presented, without everything that followed.

Soupdragon - I'm not forcing my opinion on to anyone! I'm just giving my opinion as you are giving yours.

"But the problem is that people are basing their assessment of this risk on really screwy logic and misinformation"

er nope sorry, I'm basing my assessment on 1) observing what happened in my family 2) keeping up to date with the autism research literature (I work in autism research) and 3) attending autism conferences and speaking to those who are involved in the field.

Others are saying that people should be forced into it.

This thread is going down the toilet now.

Beachcomber, you would find far more reliable, unbiased information if you went to a university medical department with your questions.

Googling does not equal researching!!!

Sycamore..........these threads also do go down the toilet

Fletingglimpse- this time last year I attended a conference with over 1000 autism researchers. The issues of vaccination damage were discussed and indeed are being worked on in a fair number of university departments. Funded by parent run bodies in the main, but finally being done.

It may well be that rubella was introduced as part of MMR for that reason, but tsi there a reason when one who would choose to Rubella jab (entirely separate debate I know for that) couldn't get same coverage from R at say 4 and then booster? Will a years gap really harm anyone? (not big font of knowledge on R BTW)

Perhaps there just needs to be a measure of there but for the Grace of God go I? Apart from the value of the base right of choosing what medical procedured we use on our opwn children, those of who have ASD will not be likely to view things from the same perspective as the OP in many (not all, we're not entirely homegenous simply by dint of an asd dx) cases. There are plenty of things in life I can say I do not understand or agree with (termination for example) but it is not for me to decide, why do we not have the same thing applied to us?

And if people really want to change all this perhaps we can lobby for research into what actually is casing ASD to be prevalent now at a rate of over 1%? That's a terrible toll on ur children, why not focus on that isntead?

Research supporting Dr Wakefield et al's work even I who have been reading about this for the last five years have not read it all.

For those who would like to examine some of the science. You will be very busy for a very long while because there is shedloads of the stuff. Amazing really considering how difficult it is to get research dollars to study anything which implicates the vaccine programme.

Is any informed person really going to come on here and bluster that all the above has been discredited 'cos like the papers say so?

"you would find far more reliable, unbiased information if you went to a university medical department with your questions."

yes but then she'd have to go to gawd knows how many different university medical departments to get a wide variety of balance research.

One of the joys of google is that you can obtain academic research papers online without having to contact every institution individually.

OP, I am very sorry that your dd is unwell. i hope she recovers soon.

BUT I am not stupid, ignorant, uncaring, "taken in", or any of the other charming adjectives use don this thread to describe parents who have not vaccinated their children.

dd1 was vaccinated. Oh yes, she had the whole lot (and then some, as we lived abroad). She then had them again when we returned to the UK, as she was "out of schedule". I didn't think twice about it. Everyone knows that vaccines are brilliant, save loads of people, etc, etc. And of course, the government wouldn't lie, would they? They wouldn't for a second think about lining some children up as collateral damage so that the majority could go along and have the vaccines. no, not for a second.

dd1 is autistic (yes, a girl! had to mrsturnip, at your gp saying that girls can't be autitic - my gp looked at me in astonishment when I mentioned it and said "but, she's a girl!")

dd2 has had no vaccines. that's right, not a single one. and she won't (she's 2.2 now) until someone can prove to me that ehr mitochondrial abnormalities are as meaningless as her last paed tried to make out. He didn't have an answer for her skewed results, btw, just dismissed them as they were not what he expected. then gave me the vaccine lecture, straight away (shortly followed by the diet lecture - my dds are gf/cf)

there is no way I am going to give either of my children another vaccine until I can get someone to listen to me seriously, take note of my concerns, and actually answer the questions I have, rather than just starting to quote the official advice.

and that does not make me irresponsible. It just means that I am doing everyhting I can to keep my girls happy and healthy (or as healthy as dd1 can ever be)