to be bl**dy furious that my DD has measles because other parents won't vaccinate?

[elportodelgato]

poor DD is only 11 mo and has horrid measles all over her, full of cold, streaming eyes, diarrhea, very unhappy and sleepy and limp. I am so so for her, but more I am absolutely bloody with idiot parents who won't have the MMR!

The doctor actually told me this morning that the reason it is so prevalent in our area is because of stupid people refusing to vaccinate their children and compromising the immunity of the whole group. So now my LO, who is only 2 months off having the vaccination herself, is really really sick because of other people's stupidity. It's making my blood boil! Do people not realise how dangerous it can be in little babies? And does anyone still seriously believe the so called "research" which claimed a link between MMR and autism? It has been so completely discredited in recent years you would think people would have got over it by now and started vaccinating again

Arrgh!!

Cote, "Vast majority of people you know will have caught STD's"???? The numbers don't back you up on that.

When I first crahsed onto MN many moons ago i was very staunch in my views of those that didn't give the MMR - in one extremely long (I think it was before the introduced the 1000 post limit on threads ) thread on the subject - and hours (possibly days?) of pouring over links to research/papers and reading posts of others on MN I had a re-education on the subject.

Since then I've found it fascinating looking at the facts and figures on the actual cases of Measles. There have been "peaks" and "troughs" since records began in 1940, variations of age and region as well.

I have given my DS's their MMR, and if I ever have more children in the future - they will also have it.

But when you look closer at the figures for measles outbreaks it does make me wonder how much "manipulation" of figures goes on - because you know it's all down to the low take up of MMR that cases have gone up............or is it?

lowrib - THE POINT was that we each assess the risks as WE see them. There is NO single risk figure for all.

You obviously have internet access. Educate yourself a bit on Game Theory. You might learn that we are each individuals with our own minds, who act according to our own complex calculations of risk/benefit.

Its far mroe complex;the risk of dying from measles is miniscule in this country; for some of us the base risk of ASD is around a suggested 20 - 80 %

The year gap with measles isnt entirely important; have measles jab done, then as long as you make sure all vaccinated with rubella before puberty isn't that OK? Mumps single unavailable here due to shortage anyway according to local practices.

Caz -

""because to be blunt I would rather risk having an autistic child than a dead one! and that is what it comes down to at the end of the day!"

Unless you live in a developing country then (thankfully) the chances of your child ending up dead because of measles are extremely low.

yanbu. I'd feel the same, though really the fault lies with ill-educated journalists and their editors/producers. I hope your daughter gets better very soon.

reach4sky - Actually, numbers do back me up on that.

Take HPV, a sexually transmitted virus. Over 50% of the sexually active population are infected. And that is but one STD. Many don't know and those who do don't go around telling people about it - which is why lowrib feels she can claim she doesn't know anyone with an STD.

So yes, lowrib does know people who have at least one STD. In fact, she may have them herself.

I know the risk is low - but it is there.....

I agree with Peachy.

DD is vaccinated against measles. She will not be vaccinated against mumps and rubella.

If she doesn't get rubella by the time she is 10, she can have her jab then.

Sorry OP but you are being unreasonable and you are obviously misinformed (as it seems are many others on this thread).

Some facts;

Dr Wakefield's excellent research has never been discredited nor scientifically challenged. Indeed he continues with his research and treatment of autistic children at Thoughtful House in the US.

There is an ever increasing body of evidence which backs up and expands on Dr Wakefield and his team's work. Dr Wakefield began his work with gut problems in autistic children because he was (until he had the misfortune to detect a problem with a vaccine) an eminent and well respected researcher who had published excellent work on the link between Crohn's disease and measles infection.

Recently in the US children have been compensated for developing autism following vaccination. Hanah Poling's case is the most well known although there was a curious lack of reporting on her groundbreaking case in the UK press.

People who do not vaccinate do so for a number of reasons. Funnily enough the majority of people I have come across are exceedingly well informed whilst the majority who claim vaccines are very safe and that there is no link with autism are, um, not. Perhaps you should suggest to your doctor that instead of calling other parents stupid for not trusting the MMR vaccine with its poor safety record, poor safety testing and established links with autism and gut problems, to get on to the NHS and demand that they reintroduce single measles vaccine (as Dr Wakefield suggested).

Imposing MMR on people is actually medically unwarranted and therefore total unethical and contrary to the right to informed consent to all medical procedures.

Some reading for you OP so that you can see just how "stupid" all the people who are concerned about MMR really are;

A close look at the curiously poor studies used to refute the MMR/autism link.

An international movement of scientists, physicians and parent-volunteers researching the causes and treatments for autism and mentoring thousands of families in recovering their children from autism.

Dr Wakefield's original report which you claim has been discredited but have you actually read it and if so could you please outline for me which parts you find fault with?

Lawyer Clifford Miller on how the British media is responsible for so many people spouting nonsense on this subject

So, once you have read the contents of these websites in their entirety including all published studies and links perhaps you would be so kind to come back and tell us if you think your original post was perhaps just a teensy bit misinformed in calling people you know nothing about "stupid".

Thank you.

YANBU. At all. The only exception I can see is an example like Peachy's.

And Peachy should be offered free single dose vaccines.

Yes I agree - Peachy - or Rivens

novicemama YANBU at all. I was worried about my dcs catching it from a child who hadn't been vaccinated esp as in our area a lot of people continued to believe the hype surrounding the MMR and there were outbreaks of measles not far from where we lived. Very relieved to when DS4 reached the age to be vaccinated - I made the appt right away!

op why don't you think about giving some Vitamin A? It's supposed to reduce the severity of the illness

stirling work cote

Thanks Saint.

For what it's worth I am pro- MMR for the majority but I am also for informed choice. The trouble is in this day and age with many parenting issues is the sheer volume of information available, some good,some not so good,(little that is unbiased or balanced) and a media that loves a good scare.

If a parent has taken it upon themselves to research this issue and make a decision thus assuming the responsibility required then I can only support them in their decision which has not been taken lighly.

I hope my children are protected as a result of being vaccinated as well as protecting others than are not immune, however it is possible that they may still acquire measles and infect others during the incubation period. I will naturally feel anger towards the individuals who have passed on the measles because I am a mum and I am allowed to feel such emotions. And yet I will probably not know the circumstances in how my children became infected.

My DD regressed following the MMR. I watched her howl in distress for two weeks, and revert to crawling from walking. I felt sick to the pit of my stomach.

My GP fobbed me off and the NHS leaflet insisted that the vaccination was safe.

Thankfully, she recovered. I wonder how many don't.

Need to get some advice from GP before dosing a baby with vitamin A - it can be toxic if too high a dose given, not normally recommended for babies.

caz - since records began in 1940 even in the year with the highest number of deaths the death rate for measles was less than 1% of those infected with it.

looks at this table - while not wanting to >> the impact that measles can have and the damage it can do the chances of death are absolutely miniscule - less than 1% in all of the random years I picked out to calculate.

BTW - on a slightly different note - for those children that do have contraindications for the MMR - what (taking Autism out of the equation because of it's disputed connection) are the risks to a child with those contraindications if they were to have the MMR regardless??

"Are you really saying that you would vaccinate your baby if you thought there was the slightest chance that it could damage her for life?"

Well I imagine that most people would answer that question with a yes. I would. I have done, or he would not have been vaccinated against any diseases at all. Nothing is 100% safe. There is always a chance that any vaccine can have adverse effects - that is reality. If no-one was willing to take that risk with their own child they would end up taking even much greater risks. But the risk of having a vaccination it is less, much less, than the risk of not having it (unless you are protected by everyone else's immunity.)

No-one would suggest that the parents of a vaccinated child in whom the vaccination hasn't worked is an idiot.

Likewise if you are aware that your child has a genuine reason not to be vaccinated that is fair enough and your child should be covered by everyone else exercising their social obligation to vaccinate.

It's the people who got wind of the MMR hoax back when it was perpetrated and have held fast to the belief that the Governement is engaged in some kind of conspiracy to allow children to develop autism and who cherry pick the science to support their own beliefs - they are the idiots because they are putting their own children at risk, along with the children of others who have not been vaccinated, the children who can't be vaccinated and the chilren whose vaccinations have failed.

If vaccination levels aren't kept above a certain level there WILL be a measles epidemic and children will die.

I'm not going to read the whole thread, but NO, YANBU. It would make me very cross too. But then I'm not sure I would vent all my anger at the other parents who chose not to vaccinate, more at the so called experts who put all this scaremongering info out there int he first place.

I don't know if the link is obvious (it is in my mind!) but it brings to mind the fact that there are kids at DD's pre-school being opted out of fantastic art projects etc because we had to sign a form to say they could be photgraphed....I mean, what do these parents imagine is going to happen to these photographs? It makes me KERAAZY! We'll all be opting out of life itself soon lest something untoward might happen to us.

Sorry - I think I may be diverting the thread now

I didn't realise you were including HPV Cote, something which after all, the vast majority of people have no reason to be aware that they even have.

There is a lot of research evidence pointing to the benefits of vitamin A for measles in malnourished children. It is given in iv form if possible. Not so much evidence for it being of use in the average well fed western child. And yes it can be toxic but only if given in very high dose for a long period. And measles uses vitamin A - a few extra doses of high quality (not cheapo tesco own brand) cod liver oil are not going to harm a child.

Interestingly there is evidence that one autism subgroup have problems metabolising vitamin A.