to think that encouraging your daughter to learn ballet is cruel

[morningpaper]

Because BASICALLY, ballet is all about body image and is a money-making racket to boot (silly costumes and unecessary shoes).

There just AREN'T curvy ballerinas. You have to have the perfect body - thin, willowy and in perfect proportion. I well remember when my 11 year-old best mate was rejected from the Royal Ballet School because her 'shoulders were too wide'. She cried for weeks. Ballet had been her life.

Basically, they either get sick of it themselves, or they stop because they realise that their BODIES ARE IMPERFECT. Either way, the time could be better used doing some sort of more useful modern dance that you can learn in £1.99 Asda trainers which isn't dependent on having a perfect body.

Please take your daughters to something more useful instead.

Mine doesn't do ballet but just an observation. We saw a production at Royal Opera House last year and as I know someone who works there we watched them rehearse backstage. I was surprised at how stocky they all were, basically very muscled and not at all underweight. I think the body shape has shifted from the emancipated to sportsperson.

Emaciated, not emancipated!

I took ballet from age 5 to 18. Ballet itself never made me want for a willowy or anorexic figure, it simply helped me learn proper technique for other types of dance that I loved to do.

A typical day in the life of a professional ballerina (6 days a week)

Class in the 10:30-12
Rehearsals till 6
Performance 7:30

They have physios, sports scientists, nutritionists, sports psychologists. Pilates and yoga teachers.

Dancers are in short athletes. Yes of course some have eating disorders same as any other job but these days they are all about strength not being thin.

Some schools still promote an unhealthy image, they do not tend to produce dancers of quality. If your local dance teacher is of such a mind I would suggest that they are not suitable for little girls or boys. Most 5-12yr olds are not looking to become professional dancers and the life skills they can gain from the discipline are huge. Of course it doesn't suit everyone. I was rubbish at it myself.

As for ballet being the basis of all dance, you learn the steps in ballet and the skills to execute them, they are the same moves in street dance or jazz or modern. You just happen to be wearing different shoes and might refer to them in a different context, style or name.

Sorry for the rant or if I've cross posted on a zombie thread.

My sister trained professionally. They had a Monday morning weigh in and the teacher used to shout at them if they'd gained so much as an ounce. She told them she expected to see gaps between their thighs.

Many years' later, she still has beautiful posture now has terrible problems with her feet.

They definitely have manky feet that's for sure!

I hate this kind of generalising crap. Both my girls 4 and 6 love their ballet classes. My 6 year old is terrible at it, unco-ordinated and clumsy just like me. The teachers are lovely and patient, constantly encouraging her. They are relaxed about the uniform and neither of my kids have ever considered the idea that they look anything less than beautiful in their leotards. The teachers are amazing and they have both made so many friends. The school shows have been an exciting event they have both looked forward to but when my 4 yr old was too scared to go on stage she was allowed to attend all the rehearsals and make her own mind up on the day.

For my girls ballet has been one of the most empowering positive experiences of their short lives. The classes are a massive pain in the arse for me but I shuttle then around every weekend because it makes them so happy.

Many of the girls in the senior dances at the show including the school's star dancer are curvy/chubby - I don't know what their body image is like but their habitus certainly doesn't stop them from being given leading roles.

Clearly a lot of people on here have had bad experiences but my girls love their ballet and it is good for them.

My Dd is built very solidly She has done ballet since she was 3, with a couple of breaks when it clashed with football! She is just learning to go up on pointe and is doing really well because she's so strong. She primarily plays cricket and dancing helps her balance. And she loves doing something non-competitive for a change. She didn't do her last exam but enjoys the shows. A lot of the older girls are big but they all happily walk around in their leotards because the atmosphere is relaxed! Dd is now 14 btw

My dd dances and is at a high level.

She has been told that unless you have a ' ballet body' you will automatically be marked down when you enter the examination room . No more distinctions for her, regardless of how well she performs.

I know lots of girls who attend ballet school. Their bodies are judged and they are given a score on how good their body is.

Their back us measured as to succeed you must have a short torso and long limbs.

It isn't just about being thin.

One girl was ' released' at 16 after being chosen to perform with the prestigious ballet school since being a young girl. The reason was that her thigh was too short.

Every part of their body is judged.

Of course there are levels of ballet, I am talking about succeeding as a professional ballerina. My dad us under no illusion that she will never make it as a ballerina but continues to dance valler.
It's her choice.

It is cruel . No other form of dance is so critical of body shape. At least her dance teachers have made her aware of the situation.

They also run auditions for cruise ship dancers. Again all dancers are specifically told that the cruise ship bosses are looking for a certain look and you either gave it or you don't. Often boils down to them finding a certain hair or eye colour attractive.

PC it is not.

emily My dd dances and is at a high level.

I'm not sure what a "high level" is, I have never been know a pupil at my DDs dance school to be marked down because of body shape.

Totally agree.
My daughter does athletics, football, cricket...can't stand ballet !

But then i don't agree in general with parading children to be gawped at...agree ballet dancers are very strong an graceful and foe a minute few it could be a career, but I encouraged my daughters to more lasting team hobbies that teach strength, resilience and character.

Sorry, haven't rtft but I think it depends on the dance school. My dd's dance school is very inclusive and there are girls of all shapes and sizes. I love the fact that they all have the confidence to get up on stage and dance.

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This is my daughter's role model. She is well aware that she is an athlete.

YANBU my DD wanted to learn ballet, she gave up soon as she found out she has to go on a diet

I haven't read the whole thread, but from what I have seen, this is RIDICULOUS! I am a very curvy ballet dancer in professional training, I do not have a thigh gap, I have big boobs and an even bigger bum and not once have I been told not to pursue ballet because of my shape. If your daughters are being ridiculed for the way they look, then they are at the wrong school.

I have been dancing for 14 years so I do believe that it is a lasting team sport and I hope it has taught me strength, resilience and character!

I have never been marked down in an exam because of my body shape, my results have been completely dependent on how hard I had worked.

Never have I, nor friends at other ballet schools have had a "weekly weigh in" or weighing of any kind. We get talks on nutrition as any teenager should, and in the rare occasion that someone has an eating disorder, they are given the help and support that is required to help them realise that their body does not need to change one bit!

Ballet is the route of all other forms of dance, and I will happily argue with anyone that disagrees with my post.

And to those who say you have to go on a diet........
I eat pizza, carbs, fatty foods and excessive amounts of chocolate on a daily basis, don't let people tell you what to do. I just ate an entire tub of pick and mix to myself.......

I dislike women "doing performance" - whereas other sorts of dance are more about participation and socialisation. I dislike women being things that are looked at and ballet seems to encourage this in a very ghastly way
DH and I went to see a production of Swan Lake at the Royal Albert Hall. It was thrilling. And of course it wasn't just women but also men who were performing. They were athletes as well as dancers. People who achieve highly in any physical activity make great personal sacrifices. But we're not talking about that here. Your approach sounds slightly hysterical and doesn't ring true morningpaper.

I dislike women "doing performance" - whereas other sorts of dance are more about participation and socialisation. I dislike women being things that are looked at and ballet seems to encourage this in a very ghastly way

I assume whoever wrote this has never actually seen a live ballet , or any serious contemporary dance for that matter.

I don't think encouraging your child to do ballet is cruel. I agree with why you would think that, however, I encourage my children to do things they enjoy especially when they feel despondent about not being the best or looking right because if you love doing an activity you should do it for the love of it at the very least and stuff what everyone thinks. I think it's great people do excel in activities but the enjoyment factor etc has to be the most important thing.
If my daughter was large (she doesn't have a ballerina figure anyway) and she wanted to do ballet I would encourage her to do it and enjoy it for as long as she wanted and to ignore any of the points brought up. I would hope by doing this she would make her hobbies work for her rather than other people's ideals.

YABU and showing your ignorance of a challenging art form. And absolutely ANYONE can dance. It's a fantastic skill, art, and discipline.

Find a good teacher and let your child learn about the joys of purposeful movement to music.

Adult ballet is a bug thing - the classes i go to (as a solid middle-aged woman) are full of people learning ballet. I've done it all my life, but I regularly speak to people who wish they'd been allowed to learn ballet as children. Their mothers told them they were too fat or too clumsy.

It's more cruel to stop your child be sure of your misconceptions than the ballet world will be cruel to any child.

It's sheer prejudice.

Lots of pupils from my dds dance school do go on to dance as adults.
Many of them go to ballet school, or theatre schools in London Urdan, Doreen Bird, Laines ect ect.

The pressure on ballet students to look a certain way is more pronounced.

My dad has completed all ballet grades and is now onto advance 1 ballet.

She is under no illusion that she won't make it as a ballerina but she still enjoys it and I'm fine with that.

Luckily ballet is not her fortait.

I would much rather her teachers were honest with her than lie.
She does do very well in exams but at a school where a distinction with over 80% is what the pupils hope for, it is right that her teachers tell her that straight away the examiner will have in her mind what type of dancer she is expecting and unfortunately that is pre based on physical shape.

Like I wrote earlier other forms of dance are prejudiced towards body type too.

Just because it doesn't happen at your dance school does not mean this prejudice doesn't exist.

Certainly I know several mums with children at prestigious ballet schools and part of the audition and subsequent re offering of places does have an element of scoring the girls on their body shape.
Of course they are scored on other areas too, but body shape is one of them.

I find the 'doing performance' aspects have actually enhanced my dd's ability to critically consider other aspects of living as a woman. She is fully aware that for the stage, there are certain rituals and expectations in terms of costume and make-up, and having more than literally learned the stage requirements, has been able to compare them to the cultural requirements (in terms of aesthetics) of being a woman in our society, and is better able to choose whether to conform or not. Ballet has actually highlighted for her the differing standards between masculine and famine in society and given her the freedom to make a considered choice off the stage.

As a result, she doesn't wear make-up, and is mostly to be found at the barre with hairy legs and armpits. (She is very dark. This is very noticeable). She gets rid of it for competition season as she is aware that she chooses to perform for the stage (in the same way that some feminists choose to shave their legs, with the understanding that this is a considered response to specific circumstances, rather than a belief that 'women should do this'). She does not choose to perform femininity in any context for the rest of the year.

Of course ballet is a performance. The bigger question is whether the women denigrating that performance are performing even stricter regulations in their own femininity, in terms of rigid adherence to social convention. Ballet dancers aren't some homogenous group who have bypassed feminism. Once you get past cute five year olds in pink frillies, it's a bit more considered than that.