to think that encouraging your daughter to learn ballet is cruel

[morningpaper]

Because BASICALLY, ballet is all about body image and is a money-making racket to boot (silly costumes and unecessary shoes).

There just AREN'T curvy ballerinas. You have to have the perfect body - thin, willowy and in perfect proportion. I well remember when my 11 year-old best mate was rejected from the Royal Ballet School because her 'shoulders were too wide'. She cried for weeks. Ballet had been her life.

Basically, they either get sick of it themselves, or they stop because they realise that their BODIES ARE IMPERFECT. Either way, the time could be better used doing some sort of more useful modern dance that you can learn in £1.99 Asda trainers which isn't dependent on having a perfect body.

Please take your daughters to something more useful instead.

I had the tonybleh experience. It improved my performance in sport (especially rowing) as I had a long experience of always knowing where a particular part of my body was at any given time. If done not in a silly way, there is no reason to get anorexic because of it. I didn't have any prolems with my body image while I was doing ballet. The eating problems I developed later on only had body image as a symptom - it was all about controlling my life by controlling my food intake, not caused by wanting to be thin, per se (I think people who have had such problems will know exactly what I'm getting at! I know it sounds a bit of a false distinction).

So bad ballet class is of course bad, don't do it. A good ballet class is a positive experience for those children who want to do it. DOn't be throwing the baby out with the bathwater!

I liked ballet when I was little but grew to hate it as I veered towards adolescence.
I would rather take dd to karate. She will be keeping fit, learning self-defence and mindfulness. Much more useful imo.

Glad to see that there are plenty of you out there that are more positive about dance after all!

I'm not sure how I feel about dd having a career as a dancer but it is how she feels that counts. I will support her in whatever decision she makes but at the moment she is just so excited at the prospect of having a go that it is a delight to behold. I do know, and frequently remind her, that it is a hard life but I think that whatever the outcome, full time training can be a positive experience and can prepare you for almost anything that life throws at you.

ttbmarypoppins - thanks for your kind words. It is not RBS that she is going to but another school that focusses on classical dance. You probably know the one I mean! Did you dance professionally after training? pm me if you'd rather!

i did ballet until I was 19. then i got a life. it can be good or bad in ways described above, the eating disorders are rife but probably only in the people in whom they might've developed anyway since htat type of person is the type who stays on in ballet after most get bored.

HOWEVER in nearly everyone it is totally unnatural to turn out your feet to 180 degrees, and it absolutely wrecks your joints. How many of us aged 20 would not have permanently aching hips and knees, and massive aching bunions, had we stopped ballet aged 7?

My dds do ballet...do I want them to become professional dancers - no! They just so something they enjoy.

BTW dds teacher has an adult class - and they are defiantly not all size 0...most look like they enjoy cakes and have had a few children

Making a child do any sort of fun exorcise is crule.
Give them crisps and sit them in front of the TV

morning paper -What a bizarre comment about thighs !!!

Morningpaper, i absolutely disagree with your comment!
My dd has learnt ballet for a while now, she loves it!! She is a teenager now and would never give it up. She is currently doing an hours ballet a day in preparation for dance college auditions. The first class you do at a dance college audition is usually ballet and it is of a very high standard. She will not be auditioning for a ballet dance school but the techniques of ballet are very important for other genres of dance.
So i really need you should have looked into this before you made your blase comment!
Oh and by the way, lots of girls not intending to go to dance college absolutely love their ballet classes and would never give them up!
Also the outfits are very reasonably priced.

I started ballet aged 3. There was never any pressure on us about body size (though I was always a scrawny kid, so maybe there was unspoken approval, who knows) and it kept me fit and active, and I loved the feeling of being so flexible, graceful and having good posture. I went on to do quite punishing forms of contemporary dance, but had to quit after many years of health problems (unrelated to the dancing). Because of these health probs, my weight fluctuated but no-one ever commented on it and I never had a problem with being picked for performance. Although I find ballet too rigid and restrictive as a dance form, contemporary dance would be very difficult for someone to go into if they did not have a ballet background. Incidentally, to the lady who mentioned trainers for contemporary dance - contemporary dance is virtually always performed and trained barefoot. No trainers required, but a lifetime of ugly, leathery feet await The earliest contemporary dance is taught is generally mid-teens, so I think you're confusing it with another style.

Now, in my 30s, I have excellent posture and am far more supple and flexible than others and people compliment me on my 'poise'. It also really helps me with yoga and gym-work.

Incidentally, people with DCs doing ballet now ought to be grateful at how un-cruel it is nowadays - in the 70s, we used to have to put our toes over a wooden block which would then be hit to 'mould' our toes and prepare then for pointe work. Thankfully, no-one has done that for a long time. Can still stand en pointe though!

our local ballet school is the one place dd goes where weight is never discussed
at least one of the teachers is a large lady, but very nippy on her feet
it's about technique and musicality, not about looking like a model
I imagine this would be the last place in the world where she would pick up ideas that might lead to anorexia- school is far more of a danger, hanging around with friends the likeliest source of all
they teach a large variety of different dance styles and encourage you to try different things
dd is devastated that she can no longer do it
we are making ds do it as it saves a weekly trudge to the hospital for physio- this is both cheaper and more enjoyable

ballet was where dd learnt to appreciate music and the theatre- which has extended into an interest in film and opera

Loved reading your comments on contemporary dance as my dd is now looking that way. She does a little contemporary but in the future i think the focus is going to be on that alot more at college. Personally i love to watch contemporary.
Yes, my dds ballet class is nothing like it was in my day!!! Although the teachers are quite strict and are all called 'miss'.... I think that is nice and teaches respect! My dd doesn't complain anyway.
Personally i think all dance is good dance and a wonderful way for boys and girls to have fun and keep fit

I think it really depends on how seriously you take it.

Ballet can be enjoyed by everyone and doing it as a child doesn't necessarily mean you have to join the Royal Ballet. Yes, if you are going to become a professional, it's unlikely that will happen unless you have the perfect body for ballet. Sadly, very few people do and there are only a handful of dancers who truly do reach the top. In many ways, they are freaks of nature. I don't mean that in a nasty way at all, but 99% of the population just aren't built for ballet. Then there are the unlucky ones who do have the physical attributes but fall fowl of a nasty injury due to the training.

As far as I'm concerned, ballet is the cornerstone of all dance. No matter what kind of dance you specialise in, ballet does give you the building blocks which make a dancer (poise, stamina etc).

I would certainly offer my child the chance to do ballet, as I would any type of dance or activity if they showed an interest (pole dancing excluded!).

I agree with the recent posters, in particular stickylittlefingers - I too developed an eating disorder after giving up ballet (not during or related) - and I think the distinction you make is very valid (although, that said, I think that starving yourself to achieve a particular body image could probably quickly turn into a habit and a physical dependency).

I was sent to ballet because I was scrawny, clumsy and completely non-sporty - not great if you are an Antipodean. It went a long way towards making me co-ordinated and giving me sufficient muscle control to bluff my way through the sports curriculum! But my feet have definitely paid the price (on reflection, an activity that involves your feet bleeding every week is probably not such a great idea...)

I have a mixed responce to the op, I think you are talking a little bit of tosh, a waste of money, hmmm, well you need a pair of ballet slippers a leotard tights, and a hairband and grips, (hair in a bun) as you progress you need points, and for different levels you need a skirt, but thats it so a waste of money, no.

But as for body image, I danced for 13 years, I was clasically trained, it was hard going strict back breaking, it took absolute commitment, and failure was not an option, and yes body image was part of that. My teacher was a high achiever who had never quite made it, she would tell us that she had lived of bread and water, and tbh thinking back, it was not weird to hear that, so it must have been spoken about openly in class. But my point is when I was 12/13 I was told that if I wanted to seriously think about this as a career, or if I really wanted to achieve anything I would have to be a different shape???

I have always been of the opinion that if I had a dd, which I now do, she is 3 and loves to dance, she is a natural, that she will not do ballet, no way no how.

Some children do dance classes, some children do ballet, but im my humble opinion, a child should do dance classes not ballet, and if it is a ballet class I suggest that you listen and watch, not just your dd class but the older childrens classes, and do it carefully, because their is a lot of underlying parts to ballet that are truly for want of a better absurd. I have been smacked on the back of the legs with a cane for not lifting my leg haigh enough, I have been mocked and ignored I have been ridiculed for not being good enough, when in actuall fact I was far past bloody brilliant.

Oh and there will always be one prima in the group, the rest of the children will be mocked for never being her, that is ballet, it is one constant competition.

And I love to dance, it gave me poise, brilliant balance and a confidence that others lack, but I hated ballet, and will not subject my dd to it.

My 6 yo niece does ballet, just an after school class, no biggy. Yet some of her classmates 'failed' their recent ballet exams for not having their fringe gelled back properly, the girls aren't allowed to wear underwear ffs. Fine if they are older and taking it seriously but 6yos?

This is why dd will be going to Irish dancing instead of ballet.

but most ballet classes aren't like that - I'm sure if any child was smacked on the back of the legs these days there would be a RIOT of parents outside with a lynch mob.

It can be fun, it doesn't have to be competitive or to examination standard.

Maybe kbear it doesnt, but, canes are used in ballet to show lift, to leap over, its a tool to keep time, it gives them a prop, it is used to tap legs, to let you know its not high enough, its always been that way. Now that doesnt mean that children are smacked on the legs, but hey I was and sometimes it was just a tap.

And I agree it doesnt have to be competitive or examinations, but then that isnt ballet, its a dance class, ballet is those things it is about perfection, or else we would all be primas.

Saying children shouldn't learn ballet because they might not be the right shape to do it professionally is ridiculous.Its like saying you shouldn't study maths because you haven't got the right sort of brain to be a professor of mathematics.
As for MPs 'thighs' argument further up the thread about gym/ballet leotards being too revealing .Shame on her Why should girls be responsibl;e for the inappropriate thoughts of others.My 7 yo DD has been doing a gym competition this week with lots of wide straddles in her leotard cut at the bottom like a swim suit.Was a bit sad that some girls of this age felt the need to wear lycra shorts underneath

DD's ballet teacher doesn't use a cane - as I said, the teaching of ballet differs from class to class. Doesn't mean the ballet school is rubbish, just means a different method of teaching. DD does ballet because she enjoys it. Maybe none of them will be Darcy Bussell but they all enjoy it and it's better than raking the streets or sitting at the laptop. Can't see what all the drama is about.

and of course it's still ballet even if it's not competitive - DD studies Russian ballet derived from the Vaganova School in Russia which doesn't have an exam system in this country.

I have 3dds, 2 of them do ballet. Now I know that neither of my DDs are ever going to be ballerinas, they do it because they enjoy. I would never force them, but all the time they are happy to go then I am happy to pay for them. They have a gorgeous ballet teacher, who teaches them little rhymes to help remember the moves. No shouting or stern speaking in our classes.

bloody hell, think far too much thought is being put into this op!I took my 3 year old to baby ballet,and although she loved it,i thought the dance teacher(obviously a failed wannabe darcy bussel type)was a right miserable bint,who looked like she had a stick up her ass.not the kindly sort youd want teaching lo's.plus she insisted on a uniform that we could only get via her acadamy that was really expensive.

Although my lo loved it,i did not.i found another class that was in a school hall,lovely (plump)teacher who wears baggy tops and trackie bottoms,and said i could dress her in anything pink.they dance/lollop ungainfully around out of time to disney tracks...and bloody love it.
i think it depends where you go.wouldnt deprive my lo,she looks forward to it every week.

I thin this whole discussion reflects modern life... some ballet schools are shite and other others are good. Some are terribly for promoting bad self image, whilst others are great for building confidence. The responsibility is down to you, as a parent, to choose a good ballet school one that is right for your child.

My DD1 (almost 6) has been doing ballet since she was 2. I readily admit that she is rubbish at it, and is never going to be a ballerina (although she does have the figure), but that is not the point - it is a hobby, one she enjoys and gets a lot of confidence from. She did a show last year and it really built her confidence too. I have never heard weight mentioned (although I doubt that would happen, the teachers are married mums, with normal figures iyswim!) Her ability (or lack of it) has never been an issue, it is just a fun hobby for her and that is it. To those who complain - find a better ballet school. They do exist!

Just read through this entire thread...phew!

Probably echoing the comments of others here, but it does depend on the school you go to.

I studied ballet from 4 to 16 and have been told on numerous occasions that I have great posture. This is something I'm proud of and to those that would think to mock this.

Similarly, there was never any mention of fatness/thinness/right body shape at my classes. Certainly none of the kids were obese, but there were plenty of plumper ones and it was never an issue. Both the teachers I had during my 12 years of ballet were middle-aged 'plumper' ladies themselves - but both had grace and coordination.

As for the pink fluffiness, I think this would have put me off as a child tbh. I wore blue when little, then black when older. Hardly a "silly" costume Morningpaper.

Finally, not once did I ever consider going professional, nor think that I was good enough to go professional. This is not what it was about for me, nor (I think) 99% of the other girls that took classes with me. Not making it into the Royal Ballet School or similar, nor not being considered good enough to do so has not in any way damaged my psyche, made me anorexic, paranoid over my wide-shoulders or had any other distressing affect on any area of my life.

Morningpaper they either get sick of it themselves, or they stop because they realise that their BODIES ARE IMPERFECT.:

I stopped because at 16 I had to devote more time to impending school exams. I was not sick of it, nor was I horrified at my "imperfect" body.

Please stop stereotyping, generalising and realise that not everyone who takes up ballet (or takes their daughter for classes) is a self-punishing extremist bully. YAB very U.

And please explain in what ways modern dance is "useful", where ballet is the opposite?