to think that my friends friend is being a bit crap in the parent dept....

[Dawnus]

Friends friend has a son who is 2 in August.

They put him to bed on a full bottle of milk so he sleeps, change his bum and give him another full bottle when they go to bed

They have started complaining that he's waking lots in the night....but he doesn't seem to have proper meals. Example: when my friend was there one evening, his dinner was a mashed banana, petit filous and some apple crisps. So my first instinct is that he's prob hungry. He had his first sandwich 4 weeks ago.

The main reason for this thread is my friend is worried. She tried to give advice when he was tiny and was shot-down...now she's feeling slightly awkward around them and is itching to say something that may help...but will more likely offend...always tricky!!

Or is it simply that we're being bitchy, and should shut-up???? lol

Sounds a bit weird - mashed banana for a 2 year old? Sounds like they haven't changed his diet from when they were weaning him which is a bit odd but maybe they don't know. I don't know what the answer is though, if she's likely to offend best not to bring it up

Sounds like they do need some advice on feeding a 2 yr old - maybe suggest a chat to the HV on what's appropriate rather than your friend making suggestions. Am assuming that there are no special dietary needs here as apple crisps would seem to suggest not.

I think the easiest thing with this is to constantly invite friend and child over for lunch and then give him proper food so the mother realises he can eat it. Perhaps it's just a question of "oh, he ate shepherd's pie, did he? blimey, maybe I'll try him on that then..." or whatever.

up until a couple of weeks ago this could be my 2yo. He ate very little other than bread, cereal, fruit etc...no proper meals. That sounds like the sort of tea I'd give him, only with some sort of bread.
Very recently he's started eating rice and chilli, potatoes and cheese, the odd bit of other meals and it's such a relief. He's also started sleeping through the night about half the time
So what I suppose I'm saying is are you sure he isn't just incredibly fussy?

I disagree. Children being neglected is everybody's business.

The issue for the OP is that she doesn't know if the child concerned is being neglected or if her friend is just being an interfering judgy-pants.

sorry crossposted with spb

What he ate when your friend was there isn't necessarily what he eats every night though is it? And for all your friend knows he may have had a large meal earlier in the day. Having his first sandwich 4 weeks ago doesn't sound that odd either if you consider that until then he may have been having bread and ham / cheese / whatever but not slapped together in a sandwich.

Having a bottle of milk is a bit odd at 2 but no different in terms of nutritional value to a mug of warm milk.

What I mean is you are probably best doing a little more investigation to see if you really do need to be concerned.

That's OK - it felt as though we were neglecting him! He doesn't eat loads more now (although I forgot chicken and sasages!) but his attitude has changed - he'll try something and decide if he likes it, and he'll join in with the meal, whereas before he just wasn't interested in food at all, apart from his few favourites.

What's wrong with giving milk to go to bed on?

DS has had sandwiches probably twice in his life (he is 3 in June) because the times when I have given them him he doesn't like them. He hates how they always fall apart and the filling falls out.

A regular meal for him is a bowl of raisins, some cubes of cheese, some cherry tomatoes and some chunks of cucumber followed by a yoghurt or banana.

I think you may be worrying over nothing. 2 is a common time for night wakings to start as they become more fearful of things and more anxious.

I have to say that when my kids have crap meals, it is often when I have visitors as the fact that they are visiting means that I don't have time to cook.

So to visitors, it probably looks as though my DC's eat disproportionately crap meals...

Dd1 was very tricky to feed at that age. The banana meal contained fruit, carbohydrate and dairy - pretty good really. as long as he doen't eat exactly that three meals a day he should be getting what he needs. It's very easy to get all het up about food offered when you've had a child who eats most things. When you have a not interested child it's very hard - and you think others are judging you as a mother all the time (obviously on mumsnet they are!) Dd1 ate fish fingers, some chicken, toast, yoghurt and apple juice for quite some time! Maybe a banana but never an apple or grapes or an orange. No red meat, no sausages, very little cheese, no ham etc etc. Then suddenly it was like a switch was flicked and she would eat anything. I weaned her in exactly the same way as I went on to wean dd2 and dd3 and yet they have never self limited themselves in that way. It's just the way some children are. I think your friend should stop imposing her experience on her friend's child (assuming she has no other concerns)

It really doesn't sound like this child is being neglected. I agree that your friend can't judge on what he eats when she's there. My 16 month old is a terrible eater when there are visitors because she gets distracted and wants to play rather than eat, so I often resort to yoghurt and fruit if she wont eat dinner. Is your friend an expert? Why is her opinion right? Unless she can qualify her comments about their baby's eating habits I think she should go easy.

There are so many possible explanations that YABU in automatically assuming that this is due to crap parenting.

There's nothing wrong with fruit, yoghurt and milk. There are also no guidelines which state that every toddler must eat sandwiches. This little boy is still only a 1yr-old.

The parents might have offered different foods but the little boy hasn't wanted them. It would surely be far worse for them to force-feed him?

Why exactly is your friend telling you about this? Does she think that you are in a position to help or advise (I don't know whether you work in this particular area or maybe have experience of feeding issues, for example)? Or is it an excuse for her to gossip and feel smug?

my ds has never slept through the night his nearly 4 he had a cup of milk up until 6 mths ago

my friends son will not eat food with lumps in etc spits it out really creates and they have to introduce foods gradually he is nearly 4

she may feel the pressure of her son being different hense being defensive everyone has idealistic way a child should be which isnt always the case and most parents just want there children to be healthy and happy which means feeding them what they know they will eat

doesnt mean she is a bad parent otherwise that would include alot of us are

anyway for his age 2 tablespoons per portion is adequate so 6 tbsp per meal that could have been his tea and would have been more than adequate

my ds at that age would not eat cooked teas only at lunch so he would have had banana , toast, fruit or yogurt

best thing is if child is happy and looks well nourished to not judge and compare to what you or i would do as we all parent differently and not all children will eat and act as others would do

YABU to judge them by one meal. Especially without knowing, or mentioning, what else he had eaten that day. Many toddlers don't like to eat a big meal at teatime and have their cooked meal in the day. I very often used to give DS porridge and fruit for tea at that age.

What is your friend actually worried about? Is it that they are not feeding him properly? Presumably she knows more about what he eats than this one example, which by itself, really means very little.

Not giving him a 'proper' meal every night and giving a baby lots of milk doesn't equal crap parenting. Neither does not feeding him sandwiches. Maybe he is very fussy and while your friend was there she just wanted to give him something she knew he would eat rather than having a full scale food battle with an audience. Poor mite isn't even two yet, give him a chance.

If you or your friend are seriously worried that they cannot parent properly or are neglecting him then call ss. If its just being judgey and thinking you could be supernanny and sort out all their problems if only they would just listen and not be offended then YABU and should mind your own business.

I think some parents just don't have much of a clue about things because they'vr never been told or shown etc....and not because they are purposely neglectful.
A friend of mine is like this. She used to feed her 2 yo DS chocolate biscuits by the packet because he was hungry and he would cry if she didnt. I had to ask her how much lunch/dinner he was eating...' ooo loads,' she said ,'Two tablespoons!' I suggested maybe she should give him more lunch so that he wouldnt be so hungry. She had honestly not thought of that!
Honestly some of the things she did and said with regards to her DC's were and things that I wouldnt do. But it was her way and unless I was asked for advice or the subject was brought up and kept well out of it.

YABU. One meal is not enough for you to be able to comment on - and a bottle of milk at bedtime...oh the shame!!!

I can't believe some of the stuff people will judge others about.

You are NOT being unreasonable to care.

OP if the boy isn't getting enough to eat then it will show in his outward appearance pretty quickly, he would look thin, have dark circles under his eyes, have little energy and generally not look well - is this the case? Like adults children all have different requirements and I've known children who eat very little but don't seem to suffer from it.

I'm getting from your post that you think they haven't moved his diet on much from when he was weaned and that they're still trying to fill him up with milk instead of giving more solids. Maybe they have got a bit 'stuck' but it doesn't sound as if they are actually giving him unhealthy food. Apart from the fact that you are concerned about the amount of food he is getting you are maybe also measuring the variety/quality of the food he is being offered against your own standards but all parents have different ways of doing things so unless you genuinely think that his health is suffering I would advise you and your friend to stay out of it.

Ha, if you saw my daughter's eating habits at the moment, you'd have the ss around here before you know it. She's 18 months and for the past few weeks has not wanted anything other than toast, yoghurt and the odd Milkybar for dinner. It drives us crazy that she won't eat the stuff she usually loves (fish pie, lasagne etc) but we accept that it's a stage that she's going through.

One faddy meal does not a neglecting parent make.

DD won't eat sandwiches either.

gosh....i've really started something. Absolutely can say that there is no neglect...not the path I was heading down at all.
Little boy concerned still has baby jarred foods with no lumps...mum says he won't eat lumps...but no perseverence with it, which as we know, it takes a lot of gagging and spitting out before they realise they can cope with the lumps.
But, he has had a sandwich.
I think it's mainly just a bit of education that's required in respect of moving forward from the weaning stage and persevering with it. She doesn't see or have contact with a HV anymore to offer/ask advice.
As far as i'm aware he is a healthy happy boy, not a very varied diet and lots of milk thru the day, but certainly not small or skinny.
You're probably all right...we should stop criticising, judging and butt out.
Thanks for your posts. It has actually been really helpful.