To ask DH to bring a couple of bits of shopping home? (continued)

[chickenmama]

Starting a new thread for starsnstripes as the old one got to 1000 posts.

Hope everyone finds this ok

And hope you're doing ok stars x

I suspose it's that whole thing of coming home and your children have gone and you do not know where.
If the roles were reserved I would be frantic.
Also the rights of access and going down the WA route I would have to re live everything about the abuse he has caused and he would be livid to think I am trying to stop him seeing his children.

If I could just find us somewhere to rent privately and tell H that I wanted a divorce he would'nt be able to stop me taking the children,would he?
Or it could be that once I have seen the solicitor I could stay at this house for a while without H here until I get a place to live,schools etc sorted.

Am I just daydreaming?

The earlier was at my slow typing.

Stars, am just about to post all your links so that they are easily accessiblein one place.

Stars,

Yes, YOU would be frantic if you came home and the children had gone, because you care about your dcs and are a decent person. Your H really only seems to care about alcohol and his own pride. I suspect from what you say about him, he would only really be frantic that nobody was going to tidy up after him and cook his dinner.

Others will I'm sure be able to advise about the different options for where you would go after leaving him, but from an emotional perspective I would have thought it would now be easier to have a clean break? If you were in the marital home, I think you would always be wondering whether he was going to walk in the door at any moment and the whole cycle would start again.

Whatever you decide, stay strong and just remember we are all here looking out for you.

Relationships : Close to breaking point NOVEMBER 2005

Relationships : Definitely from another planet JULY 2006

Relationships : Feeling so alone, need to talk AUGUST 2006

Relationships : How would you feel? OCTOBER 2006

Other Subjects : Don't know what to do DECEMBER 2006

Relationships : Need someone to talk to JANUARY 2007

Special Needs : DH has really hurt me with his comments JULY 2007

Other Subjects : Don't know what to do anymore JULY 2007

AIBU : What is wrong with this? JULY 2007

AIBU : That DH has put a damper on Christmas before it's even begun? DECEMBER 2007

Relationships : Now what? MARCH 2008

AIBU : Happy birthday or not? APRIL 2008

AIBU : to be paranoid about DH staying out drinking? JUNE 2008

Relationships : God I hate DH when he is drunk AUGUST 2008

AIBU : To be annoyed at pub banter? SEPTEMBER 2008

AIBU : To want just a little bit of consideration? FEBRUARY 2009

AIBU : To ask DH to bring a couple of bits of shopping home? MARCH 2009

Oh Stars, I didn't realise how long you have been oppressed. It isn't a wonder you can't get your head around leaving without telling him. You have been apologising for this man internally for so long, it is inevitable that you feel responsible for how he feels.

The fear you seem to post often is of him being bewildered by your and the children's absence. I guess it's obvious and you've thought of it already, but could you leave a note? Not necessarily telling him where you are, but giving him clear details of when he can next see you and the dcs (with a moderator), and making sure you give him some form of contact via a third party so you don't feel you are leaving him helpless? Surely there is some way of sorting this through the refuge, I would imagine many women feel the weight of responsibility for a needy other half in your situation.

I know what you mean about his 'nice' behavior. It took my ex beating me with a chair for me to kick him out- all done in a rush with the help of friends' husbands one drunken (him) night. Emotional abuse can just carry on and on with the abuser somehow managing to convince you that you are the reason for it, and he would be so much better if you just behaved better.

I hope you are ok, I understand your reluctance to leave, I know it is hard to get perspective in your situation. But you do deserve, we all do, to be treated as a real, feeling person by the one who is supposed to love you.

Missed one between the two posts as it wouldn't let me do them all in one go.

AIBU : To feel upset that DH has gone awol on new years eve? DECEMBER 2007

It was only last week that H was happy to leave his children to spend time in the pub. Nevermind anything in the past, it's very clear right now that his kids are not his top priority.

That's not to say that he'd come home and be upset, but I doubt he'd be frantic.

If he comes home to an empty house after a night out on the lash will he even be in any sort of state to comprehend the situation? Or will he just pass out fully clothed somewhere?

I don't want to advise you either way (WA vs Private rent/divorce) but you are that one who knows H best. If you go down the private rental route will you be safe? Will your children be safe? Will he agree to a divorce and not drag it through the courts?

I'm sure your head will be a lot clearer once you're armed with all the information.

Not long to go now.

Stars still checking on you... and praying that God will give you the strength to leave soon

xxxxxxx

Dear Stars...

I had pretty much decided not to post on here, I try not to go on about my own experiences too much as it is always feels as if I'm talking about someone else, rather than me, it still feels unreal.

The bit you need to know, though, is something that I haven't really told anyone else (so this is a big way to do it!).

I left my boyfriend of 4 years after we finally got to a point where I felt strong enough to do it. The cycles/phrases/etc etc were all so so similar to those you quote, it scares me silly.

Then I went back. For about 18 months is was pretty much same as. Then he tried to throttle me, so much so that I blacked out. He said he didn't remember doing it.
I left, and went back 8 weeks later.

HE finally left ME 2 years later, for an 18 year old (at this point we were about 24).. who is now his partner and they have 2 children of about 11 and 9 I think. I still torture myself sometimes that either I shoudl have warned her, or that it was me that caused it, and taht with her he's god's gift (hollow lol).

I suppose what I'm saying is that I KNOW how strong you need to be to leave; I wasn't strong enough.

BUT he did me the biggest favour.

My life now, 10 years later, would have been unimaginable then. What will he be like tonight? Have I done anything that can be yelled at? Will he have had a drink? If i leave, who would want me? He's probably right, how could I possibly be loved by anyone when I'm always overweight (I was 5'8" and 9.5 stone).. how could I do this to him? What if he really did commit suicide if I left?

in the end he waited til I was in hospital and the left. Having had an affair for a few months.

I still feel very ashamed that I let someone do that to me, that I wasn't stronger, and that I was dumped, but most of all I'm just bloody relieved that I'm alive, married to someone who is everything he was not, and "living". Really living. I will continue to watch your progress (and believe me, you are making incredible progress), and have faith in you. So many people do, it might just be enough for the days when you don't have faith in yourself.

J

Stars, do you think this may be the root of why you are still there?

Ok, imagine this senario. You have decided that you are leaving, the time is right.

You have a rented house not far form the school that you can move in to as soon as you need to.
You know it's no good trying to talk to H when he's drunk so wait for a time when he isn't. The trouble is, you have no way of knowing when that will be so you have to ready to go at very short notice.

There finally comes a time when H is not drunk so you decide to just do it. You tell him you are leaving and taking the children, but that you won't try and stop him from seeing them etc...

How do you think he would be most likely to react? (Only you can really predict this, we don't know him, we only know of him.)

For this senario to end in the way you would like it to, H would have to stand by as you fetched the children and rounded up any bags you were taking with you. He would then have to let you load the children and bags into a waiting taxi/friend's car, with the children asking what is going on, where are we going, why is Daddy not coming etc.. and leave.

Can you honestly, hand on heart, see this as a possible way to do this? Given your H's previous history of behaviour, can you see him remaining calm and civilized as you walk out of the door?

I know you hate the idea of just leaving, I know the thought of how you would feel if he did this to you is forefront in your mind, but his mind does not work the same as yours, his treatment of you proves this. You can leave him a letter, explaining everything except where you are. This way he knows what's going on and you can leave in the way that carries the least risk of trauma and upset for you and your children.

Stars - I'm sorry I didn't get your posts last night, but glad you had so much good advice from people.

You do need to think about whether or not you could ever leave amicably with the children - especially given the threats he's made in the past - the physical threats, the threat that you should be sectioned, and the fact that his family have a lot of money for solicitors etc.

And in my (very humble) opinion, and from reading what other posters have said about alcoholics - would anything less than coming back to an empty house be enough of a kick for him to even admit that he has a problem, let alone begin to address it?

If you leave via WA, you can leave a note explaining what you've done and why. WA would also help you notify the police, so that he can't file a missing persons report (which even if you left a note he might do as a way of harassing you). You can even get a second cheap mobile phone, so that he can call you on your old number but you don't have to switch that phone on unless you're feeling strong enough to talk to him. And he won't be able to get drunk, come round and harass, threaten or abuse you. And you'll be safe, with the kids, in a place where they understand what you've been going through and can help you adjust to a life in daylight...

I know it will be hard to go through all history of the abuse, but you've already started doing that here (you strong woman you). How much easier will it be to do with trained and experienced professionals, rather than well-meaning eejits like me?

Stay strong stars - we're all rooting for you

Stars - I'm sorry that I've been away from this thread for a day or two, and I'm more sorry that your H seems to be going back to his normal way of behaving.

Please keep telling yourself that you are doing the right thing by leaving. As others have said, coming home to an empty house, and not knowing where you or the children are, may be the wake-up call that this bloke needs. To my mind, it's the only way to be sure that you and the children can leave safely - as purplesponge says, can you see him standing calmly by and letting you leave with the children? I only know him from what you've posted here, but I think the chances of him doing that are zero - and the chances of him lashing out at you and doing you real physical damage are far, far greater.

And once he knew you were thinking of leaving, he'd be able to do plenty to make it much harder - keeping you short of money, making sure that you couldn't get at important papers, checking up on you etc.

The easter weekend is nearly over, and he'll be going back to work, and then you'll be able to get your head together again.

Easter is about new beginnings, new life and new hope - and I pray that this easter will be all those things for you and your children.

{{hugs}}

Hi Stars

How are you today? You are doing fabulously. Getting stronger, more determined.

Of course you are going to have wobbles and this is a huge thing for you, but we are with you all the way.

I know I said similar on the last thread, but I also know how thoughts have to go in circles sometimes for things to fit into place.

You leaving with the children may give your H a jolt but he needs a jolt. At the moment, what incentive is there for him to sort himself out? He can go out when he wants. He has you there as his emotional punchbag so he can dump his toxic feelings on you. You are looking after the children and house so he doesn't have to take responsibility for this.

From what you've posted, it sounds like you want your children to have a relationship with their father. You are not thinking about uprooting yourself and the children just as a way to get at him. You are wanting to do it to create a safe place for you and your children. That is not selfish of you. It is your right and your need.

Giving your H a shock provides an opportunity for him to wise up. As I said before, he may well squander this opportunity, but that is not your problem.

I'm not going to tell you what to do because it is not my place. It has to be your decision in your time, but I wanted just to say that there is nothing to feel guilty about. You are doing the best you can in a bloody horrible situation that is not of your making.

Another non-mumsnet . Keep strong lovely!

BTW I think Stayingsunnygirl's Easter analogy is spot-on. Here's to new hope

Stars - am out for day now but will check in via mobile from time to time. Hope you have a lovely day with the DCs, even if it's because H is too hungover to get up . Enjoy your chocolate

Honkngantelope-Thank you for putting all those links together for me.
You and dreadpirate have been so kind.
Am looking forward to getting to these appointments and as you say arming myself with more information.

Barnmummy-long term it would not be an option to stay in the marital home and would not want to,too many bad memories.

Poppity-thank you for sharing your story which must have been hard for you to do.
I guess it's believing that I do deserve to be happy thats the hard part.

cazzaben-thanks for your support still.

jackaroo-thank you for posting and sharing your experience.
Another story that gives me hope for the future.
"Really living" sounds good to me.

purplesponge-given that senario I am not sure hand on heart.
Probably highly unlikely that it would go smoothly.
Maybe this indecision is what is keeping me here and I need to decide how to do this once and for all and what will be the least trauma for the children.

dreadpirate- no need to say sorry,you have been brilliant.
I think I need to stop being so naive and face the fact that things will/could get ugly.
No more than I have been used to.

sunnygirl-"new life,new hope ,new beginnngs"
A perfect way to put it.
Thanks for your continued support.

This morning started off with H in a bad mood because the children were playing up.
He was still in bed so I went in and got shouted at to deal with it an dnot wake him up.

The childrn are playing upstairs and H came into the kitchen and asked me about his brothers wedding in May.
I said I needed to know if the children needed the friday off before from school so I could let the school know.
He said "of course they will we will not get down there in time otherwise"
He reckons I am expected to go and I said I can't deal with it at the moment.
He said I don't need to know about the arrangements then.
I told him I do as my children are involved.
He asked when thet became my children they are ours.
I said I need to know he will be responsible.
He came and gripped my arm and said of course I will be I have to drive back the next day.
He then went on to say you could get off your arse and come with us and make sure.

And another thing.. (sorry about the fragmented nature of all of this - am trying to keep an eye on a potty-training toddler right now!!)

Of course in an ideal world and a non-abusive relationship it would be the right thing to work splitting up out with your DH - but unfortunately the relationship is abusive, so it is not safe for you to do this. Is that you fault? No it is not.

If you are having to plan an escape without consulting your DH, that is because he has made your home an unsafe place to have a civilised conversation.

Because he hasn't behaved like a proper adult for so long - coming in pissed, collapsing all over the place, being abusive, being totally focused on himself - you have been put in a position of having to feel overly responsible for everyone.

It is time for your H to take responsibility for himself. If his DW and DC are not in the house when he gets home and noone has discussed it with him, why has that situation come about? What has he done to create this situation? He needs to start asking himself some bloody searching questions.

While he doesn't have to take responsibility for his own actions, he can kid himself that there is nothing wrong with the way that he is behaving. He is getting away with it, so it is all OK.

So time for him to face the fact that it is not OK.

You are responsible for you. Your are responsible for your DC.

However, your H is responsible for himself because ultimately he is (allegedly) an adult.

Remember you are a wonderful, warm, caring, strong woman. Although I've never met you it is abundantly clear from your posts. I can tell that you adore your DC and that everything you do you do for them too. Never let anyone make you believe otherwise.

Sorry, crossed posts with all my wittering.

Soooo sorry for your H. Sounds like he must have had a poorly head this morning because of all those nasty G&Ts. How dare your DC's make a noise and disrupt his beauty sleep .

He could do with keeping his effing hands to himself - the bully. Look after yourself.

Hi Stars

Happy Easter.

Sorry to ask this: I know you do the school run, but apart from that, do you go out much?

I have asked about agoraphobia before because one of your previous threads mentions it.

I have noticed that the trigger for quite a few of your H's nasty remarks seems to be an issue relating to him going somewhere and you not (ie him going out to get you a paper, the bread and milk that started the thread, the wedding).

Is going out still a problem for you?

Of course you're expected to go to the wedding. No-one else is going to look after the DCs while he gets drunk
You're not going to let it get as far as May anyway, are you Stars?

servalan-You are right he does need to take responsibility for himself which is quite ironic as he is always telling me I need to be more responsible.
Reading the old threads everything is just going round in cirlces and has been for a long time.
Of course there are other incidents in between those I posted that I did not post about .
Just as well really I would have been constantly on mumsnet and not keeping up with the housework,which just won't do!!

Thanks dreadpirate.

Balloonslayer-Agoraphobia has been a problem in the past but this has improved and I have got so much better.
I have had to.
I go into town and shopping and of course I have numerous appointments to take DS to on a regular basis for which we take the train to.
Also holidays ,although only once or twice a year.
Days out etc.

Having to attend various school meetings,professionals meetings etc I have had to just get on with it and stay calm and focused .
Obviously my DS's SN drive me to do that and be the best advocateI can for him.

notplayinganymore-I think that is why he is pissed off .
Nothing to do with the fact that his family want me there more to do with I will be there to look after the children whilst he gets drunk .
Will I still be here in May,hopefully not.

I just keep nipping back on to say hi as then the thread stays in my active convos!

Now then about this wedding. Reminded me. Months before I finally left my ex he had got some tickets for a Rolling Stones tour. Before he got them I was thinking of leaving then as the date got closer I kept thinking 'oh I can't go before that' for some reason even though I'm not keen on the stones. We were going with other friends so it sort of made me think that I had to carry on with the happy couple charade.

In the end my running off happened 2 weeks before the gig. Just like you I felt guilty at just leaving, so I rang two days later to 'see how he was'.

Was he sad, was he sorry, was he begging me to come home? No, he told me to GET BACK HERE, and his reply to everything i said was 'but what about the stones concert?'.

He didn't give a shite about me, all he was worried about was other people realising that I had left him. Other people realising that he was unbearable to live with. In other words he was more concerned about what people thought of HIM.

Please be gone before that wedding.

HARSH COMMENT ALERT::

If anything, if he is his usual self, every other adult at that wedding will be looking at you and thinking either 'how on earth does she put up with that tosser' or 'poor cow'.

Sorry to be harsh but I learned after leaving him that those two things where what people said about me.

You have to leave him before that wedding SO THAT NO ONE CAN EVER SAY EITHER OF THOSE THINGS ABOUT YOU AGAIN.

good post flibberty! Just checking in to see how you are stars. Am also thinking about stuff i'd like to post later, when i'm on a proper puter - in the meantime, i hope you,re day's going better...

Thanks for answering Stars. Hope you didn't mind me asking. I was concerned that if it was still a problem, all our exhortations to you to up and leave would be extremely stressful rather than encouraging.

I guess that the time for trying to understand your H's behaviour has long passed, but there do seem to be quite a few triggers of "going somewhere on your behalf" to his abusive talk. Does he perhaps see any request such as "could you pop and get me a paper?" - a perfectly normal thing for a wife to ask a husband - completely differently to other people?