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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not allow my child to do a reading in church?

934 replies

GooseyLoosey · 30/03/2009 08:45

Dh and I are atheists. The dcs attend the local school which is C of E (although wholly state funded). There are no alternative non-C of E schools locally.

The school tends towards being very religious and there is a special Easter service in church for the school this week. Ds (5) has been given a reading to do at this service. It includes many "Praise God" and "God is good" type statements.

I don't wish to over react but getting ds to actively participate in an act of worship may be a step too far for me. AIBU to object and to consider telling them to get someone else to do this?

OP posts:
SamsMama · 01/04/2009 14:09

I agree spongebobmaternitypants. Public schools should not be religious, and I say this as a religious person. Here in American they are secular, except for that part of the Pledge, which some parents have their kids opt out of saying. If I want my son to learn more about our religion, I will send him to a private school (if I can scrape up the cash that is!) If I can't, I know he will get a perfectly good education in our public schools, and we will teach him our religious beliefs at home or in Sunday School.

I mean, even Jesus said "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's", right? Seperation of Church and State.

onagar · 01/04/2009 17:04

And why do they need to learn to believe in school anyway. They can learn about it in school, but the part where they are told to believe in their parents religion can be done at home or in church.

I've said this before, but there is never going to be a fair way to include 'teaching to believe' in schools since even christians are divided on which bits to believe.

You would need a school for ever religion and sect in every area.

piscesmoon · 01/04/2009 17:34

'If someone who is an Arsenal fan does not take their child to matches so that they can decide themselves which team to support, are they being neutral or "anti-football"?'

That is a good example. An Arsenal fan takes their DC to Arsenal matches and they convey their own enthusiasm but they fully accept that that their DC will eventually make up their own mind-they may become an ardent Arsenal fan or they may decide that Chelsea is their team or they may decide that they can't stand football.
A Christian or an atheist works in the same way.

I loathe football and so never talk about it, watch it on TV or have a clue about any of the teams. I was a single parent and so had the biggest influence on my DS. He loves football, plays football and decided to support Brighton from an early age. I am not upset-I don't expect him to think the same as me. My DH2 is a football fan. My DS2 supports Southampton (not his father's team). DS3 is like me, he will watch England in the World Cup, but it wouldn't bother him to miss it.
We all accept the differences and no one tries to 'convert' the others although DS1 and 2 think DS3 is a bit odd! Religion, or lack of it should be the same IMO.

salome64 · 01/04/2009 19:11

note to self, read Prettybird's post more carefully

thirtypence · 01/04/2009 20:06

Ds goes to an Anglican school through our choice. They use the reading in church as part of the oral language bit of literacy. Over the course of the 8 years they are there they probably only get to read once or twice.

Interestingly in NZ you can't sing Christmas carols in a state school, but they sing "God defend New Zealand" at each assembly.

justaboutback · 02/04/2009 08:23

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justaboutback · 02/04/2009 08:24

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CoteDAzur · 02/04/2009 10:16

Not a bad analogy, actually.

I find football totally pointless. Never would go to a match. Neither would I ever take DC to a football match.

Does that mean I am depriving them of something that can be very useful to them in life? Being part of a brotherhood. Something to talk about and bond with strangers.

If you are a big fan of football, it might seem that way to you. But as someone who has never been interested, I can assure you life is very fulfilling and interesting without it.

justaboutback · 02/04/2009 13:16

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Ivykaty44 · 02/04/2009 15:38

A derious football fan can be very dissapointed if the offspring dont like football and choose to like another game that the parent disaproves - this is when a parent should allow the choice and not keep sending the child to the football knowing that they adore rugby.

piscesmoon · 02/04/2009 17:22

'If you are a big fan of football, it might seem that way to you. But as someone who has never been interested, I can assure you life is very fulfilling and interesting without it. '

Exactly-there could be a worldwide ban on football and I wouldn't miss it in the least!
However I accept that, apart from DS3, the rest of my family would be devastated and would probably be playing football in secret! You do what you can to pass on your own enthusiasms and foster them but, as Ivykaty says, there is no point in continuing to flog a dead horse! Your DCs have to be free to do their own thing, even if you are disappointed.

justaboutback · 02/04/2009 18:46

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spongebrainmaternitypants · 02/04/2009 19:04

Ivykaty, what would be more even more devastating to me than finding out my DS didn't like football, is finding out he supported Man U (which pretty much amounts to the same thing in my eyes anyway!! )

CoteDAzur · 02/04/2009 20:25

It really is a good analogy.

I can't for the life of me understand the great difference between, say, protestants and catholics. And I am just as lost as to why fans of one team would be as opposed to fans of another team.

CoteDAzur · 02/04/2009 20:29

The other day, a (seriously) Catholic friend tried to explain why Protestants would not be welcome in a Catholic mass:

  • Because they think bread and wine symbolically stand for Jesus' flesh and blood, whereas we believe they actually are His flesh and blood.
  • Symbolically, you mean.
  • No, really.
  • What do you mean, "Really"?!?
  • We believe wine turns literally turns into his blood and bread literally turns into his flesh before we consume them.
stillstanding · 02/04/2009 20:40

Cote, transubstantian is supposed to be the bedrock of Catholicism but I have never met a Catholic person who actually believes in it.

In fact I have met quite a few who didnt even know about it ...

YanknbeforetheCockcrows · 02/04/2009 20:53

I was brought up Catholic, went to 12 years of Catholic school, and got confirmed (dad's wishes, not mine) before I understood transubstantiation. In class one day, we were talking about it, and I said 'but it's just a symbol, if you put it under a microscope it's still a cardboard-tasting wafer'. My teacher sighed, and said 'No, that's the Lutherans. . .'

Habbibu · 02/04/2009 22:20

My dad believes in transubstantiation.

salome64 · 02/04/2009 22:57

its so rubbish being a Catholic. We were taught that if we chewed the host it would bleed as it was Christ's body. guess what the outcome of that was? a whole generation of apostates.

UnquietDad · 02/04/2009 23:00

Bread and wine. Yes. Oh dear. I don't have any problem with people believing it symbolically but believing it literally is just bollocks. I mean, it's not my opinion that it's bollocks, It is a testable, scientific fact that wine does not turn into blood and a bread wafer does not turn into the body of some bloke who died 2000 years ago.

Whenever I am on the point of conceding a point to the religious, something like this always comes and hauls me back from the brink...

ruty · 02/04/2009 23:03

[falls over at the thought that UQD has ever been at he brink of conceding a point to the religious]

UnquietDad · 02/04/2009 23:05

I think the closest I've come is something along the lines of "Oh, believe your twaddle if you want, just don't bother me with it." Funnily enough, people still won't have it that way...

ruty · 02/04/2009 23:09

Ah. Right.

YanknbeforetheCockcrows · 02/04/2009 23:27

I think my dad probably believes in transubstantiation too. He was sent off to 'priest school' at 14, finally left after 6 years or so (lucky for me!).

Poor guy, now he's got a daughter than refuses to have anything to do with organised religion, and a son who's converting to Judaism.

I pretty much knew I didn't believe when I was 8, but I really tried hard. I would ride my bike over and sit in the empty church and try to feel god's presence. I didn't want to be confirmed at 16, but my dad said I had to or there was no point in me continuing at my Catholic school--the alternative being the state school where people were getting stabbed! I didn't want to leave my friends, so I sucked it up, went to the classes and mumbled through the service.

Dad is still leaving 'So you're a lapsed Catholic' brochures in my suitcase when I go home.

justaboutback · 03/04/2009 08:34

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