Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not allow my child to do a reading in church?

934 replies

GooseyLoosey · 30/03/2009 08:45

Dh and I are atheists. The dcs attend the local school which is C of E (although wholly state funded). There are no alternative non-C of E schools locally.

The school tends towards being very religious and there is a special Easter service in church for the school this week. Ds (5) has been given a reading to do at this service. It includes many "Praise God" and "God is good" type statements.

I don't wish to over react but getting ds to actively participate in an act of worship may be a step too far for me. AIBU to object and to consider telling them to get someone else to do this?

OP posts:
spongebrainmaternitypants · 31/03/2009 20:28

Yes, it's the parents refusing not the school! Although obviously they prioritise Catholic children, which they are not strictly allowed to do but it's hard to prove.

But see my earlier post - I would never want my IVF born son to go to a school run by a religion that teaches that his birth is some kind of sin .

nomoreamover · 31/03/2009 20:29

spongebrain - taken out of context!!!

My understanding of the catechism is that IVF is a problem for the staunch catholic arm because it can involve a third party

i think you will find most priests will bless IVF that is simply egg and sperm from the husband and wife but have issues with IVF that involves either a donor sperm or a donor egg as it can be construed as adultery

Although I will say now- the Pope doesn't get it right on all counts and I do admit we need a radical shake up hence why so many catholics were dismayed they chose the current pope over some other more forward thinking ones.......

spongebrainmaternitypants · 31/03/2009 20:35

The issue the Catholic church has with IVF is the creation of embryos that are not used, or perish or are destroyed, regardless of whether they are donor or not.

However, I can't accept that my IVF baby is ok, while my friend with twins from donor eggs is somehow 'tainted' - that doesn't sit comfortably with me.

Not to mention the Catholic teaching on homosexuality - as my DCs will be brought up with a gay uncle, and will be taught that it is a perfectly acceptable way to live, it would be hard for them to reconcile that with being told at school that it was a 'sin'.

And totally agree with you about the current pope - he doesn't do your religion any favours at all .

nomoreamover · 31/03/2009 20:43

spongebrain - I have to embarrasingly admit that were it not for my totally "out there" and forward thinking priest I may well have left my "religion" as you call it (although I prefer belief system :-)) well alone

I have to agree with general RC consensus - some people try forever to get pregnant and yet science allows so many perfectly formed embryos to be "thrown away" if surplus to requirements

Life begins at conception for us so to abort a pregnancy or to throw away unwanted IVF embryos is tantamount to murder. However this is highbrow adult stuff - there is no way they would EVER even hear about this in primary or even tbh secondary Catholic education.

And that is not the only "issue" - adultery problems are also a biggy - I should know as a catholic RE teacher....!

If the medical profession could find a purposeful use for embryos no longer needed then I think you would find the Catholic Church would relax its views on IVF

Even as a non believer you must have considered the morality of chucking human life in the bin when it is no longer needed by its "owners"?

nomoreamover · 31/03/2009 20:45

Forgot to discuss your thoughts on homosexuality - sorry!

Actually I agree with you - the church is disgustingly outdated on its view of gay men and women. i believe genetics have alot to do with it and do not agree that it is a lifestyle choice that is incompatible with being RC - I think you can be Gay and Catholic -and actually spongbrain - you will find alot of Gays in my church on a sunday morning......but then my priest is cool like that

spongebrainmaternitypants · 31/03/2009 20:55

I know someone who's child goes to a Catholic secondary school where IVF was discussed so I'm not sure he wouldn't be exposed to it.

I am pro-choice when it comes to termination of pregnancy, so I couldn't then argue that the disposal of human embryos not needed in IVF was wrong - that would be contradictory.

Don't understand how those who use donor sperm/eggs could be accused of adultery tbh.

I think that surplus embryos should be used - not because of the 'disposal of human life' argument but because there are so many couples who go through IVF who never produce a viable embryo, who would be eternally grateful to be able to 'adopt' an embryo not required by another couple.

It is becoming quite common practise in the States apparently.

Wasn't an issue for us cos our little boy was the only embryo we created .

spongebrainmaternitypants · 31/03/2009 20:58

Lol - so they're not the only gays in the church then?!

I totally believe that homosexuality is genetic, not a lifestyle choice. My brother is one of twins and has a straight brother, and I have no doubt he was born gay.

Btw, have you noticed everyone else has buggered off and left us?!

nomoreamover · 31/03/2009 21:00

yes I can only hope its cos they are watching Holby - not because we hijacked a thread with our own agenda (teehee!!)

oh and my priest is so cool cos he was married and has 6 kids so he has experienced the real world not the artificial one the Pope tends to live in

Mistresses now so will have to leave you to your own devices....sorry1

But have enjoyed our healthy debate - makes me miss uni.....

spongebrainmaternitypants · 31/03/2009 21:07

I enjoyed it too - enjoy Mistresses!

And apologies to OP for hijacking your thread!

prettybird · 31/03/2009 22:41

I really don't understand why a properly secular education system wold be so difficult.

They succeed in France and America.

Many schools in the UK (in both the English and Scottish systems) manage to do so as well - but at the risk of being illegal as they are supposed to do assemblies that are "broadly Christian in nature, but instead omit the Christian (or any other religious) bit.

piscesmoon · 31/03/2009 22:49

It wouldn't be difficult if church and state were separate-but it is difficult when they are not separate.

prettybird · 31/03/2009 23:08

That's why I am a disestablishmentarianist!

ps .....do I get the prize for the longest word used on Mumsent tonight?

Ivykaty44 · 31/03/2009 23:17

originally thought church schools and board schools were seperate, the church schools suffered as they had use the peeny from each pupil to support the school and did not have state aid as the board schools did - thus the later getting better results.

Board schools were free, and church schools wern't. There are a number of church schools in the country I am in where they just would have closed the doors as they did not have the funds to keep the school going (although in some cases they did but the vicars were opposed to the spending of money on the school and this is made clear in relevent documents in the parish chest)

There were other types of schools before it became compulsory, not just church schools. It was that the church schools were struggling and the state came to a deal over the land.

As for faith schools being over subnsribed - it is only the faith school out of four secondary schools in the area that is not over subscribed - they have places each year.

The faith school goes have considerable bad press in the local paper.

salome64 · 01/04/2009 00:57

on mumsnet and in the English language, PB, flirted with it earlier on but didn't fancy the ear bashing. brave and clever girl!

prettybird · 01/04/2009 01:05

Not the longest in the English language - there is one that is four letters longer. Prize for whoever gets it first!

salome64 · 01/04/2009 01:18

ooh ooh ooh! do tell! `I was brought up believing antidisestablishmentarianism was the longest....thought your suffix of ist would match....

salome64 · 01/04/2009 01:20

I assume we cant use medical terms? they go on for pages...

Niecie · 01/04/2009 01:42

Floccinaucinihipilification?

Wot UQD does with religion.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 01/04/2009 03:36

.

salome64 · 01/04/2009 07:58

but pb, do you really want the state and church to remain formally bound together?

justaboutback · 01/04/2009 09:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Threadworm · 01/04/2009 09:20

'End of' doesn't sound right from a Rev. Is that how you do the Lord's Prayer?

'...for ever and ever, world without end. End of'

justaboutback · 01/04/2009 09:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

prettybird · 01/04/2009 09:40

Ah but salome64 - I said I was a disestablishmentarianist, not an antidisestablishmentarianist

So yes, you got the longest word right (unless you and I were wrongly informed when we were growing up) and no, I don't beleive that state and the church should remain bound together.

UnquietDad · 01/04/2009 14:02

If someone who is an Arsenal fan does not take their child to matches so that they can decide themselves which team to support, are they being neutral or "anti-football"?

If a Star Wars fan doesn't force their child to enjoy these films but instead leaves it up to their child to discover them on their own, are they being "anti-SF" or neutral?

If a Conservative voter doesn't force their views on their children, and lets them make up their own minds how to vote, is this being neutral or "anti-politics"?