to not allow my child to do a reading in church?

[GooseyLoosey]

Dh and I are atheists. The dcs attend the local school which is C of E (although wholly state funded). There are no alternative non-C of E schools locally.

The school tends towards being very religious and there is a special Easter service in church for the school this week. Ds (5) has been given a reading to do at this service. It includes many "Praise God" and "God is good" type statements.

I don't wish to over react but getting ds to actively participate in an act of worship may be a step too far for me. AIBU to object and to consider telling them to get someone else to do this?

Actually, and I am ashamed to admit this, there is something quite catchy about Spandau Ballet... not that I ever really listen to it of course...

"How would an atheist feel however, if their child grew up and chose religion?"

Reminds me of when DD was tiny and my sister, on seeing her in her little goth T-Shirt and black leather jacket said "Poor child, what on earth is she going have to rebel against when she's a teenager?"

"Probably become a Christian and a smoker" was DH's reply

And she's a big fan of the Violent Femmes and German industrial techno (since the conversation has slipped that way)

I'm shwoing my age I don't know who Violent Femmes etc are.

Poor ds is getting brainwashed through being forced to listen to Radio 2

For the raising children thing: yes, I think, whether you intend to or not, raise your children in your own belief/moral system, just as you raise them to have your taste in music (hopefully) and to some extent, political views. That's what parents do. My parents (bless them) raised my siblings and I as christians, and ended up with a Jew, an Atheist and CofE. If you get into my wider family, you'll also find a buddhist, some Jehovah's witnesses and muslims. I have the utmost respect for my parents on this matter, as even though they are very strong in their faith, they were willing to accept (to an extent) that their children have different belief systems to them.

.... and he also loves Mamma Mia (and all things Abba) as well as High School Musical

If you are totally opposed to religion being forced on your dc, do you then not celebrate easter or Christmas? how can you explain these events? There are many non catholics at my dc school, but they all seem to intergrate well. Surely unless you are taught about religion you can not make an informed choice as an adult. I would feel a little concerned at a 5 year expressing an opinion of it being rubbish, this sounds like serious brain washing at home. What about the children in his class who do believe, how does that make them feel if he vocalises his lack of belief in front of them. Even at my dc school the religious instruction is certainly not heavy at all. If you had a strong belief in another faith I could understand it maybe, but to believe in nothing what is there to be gained from letting him see and respect other peoples beliefs,

I know some feel that atheists should not care what religious people do. The problem is that the religious (throught the state) have made it compulsory to worship god in school. In addition the church leaders have a lot of say in legislation including a right to sit in the house of lords.

Leave us alone and we will leave you alone.

Someone said "technically the faith of Christianity isn't 2000 years old as it takes the OT into it's belief". Whenever I point to some atrocity or contradiction in the OT someone tells me that it doesn't count because that wasn't christianity. Can't have it both ways.

raising a child to be religious is no more indoctrination than the other way around

I thought religion was rubbish when I was 5 tootyflooty, and I hadn;t been brainwashed to think that. I was brought up in the sort of genial CofE household that didn't go to church much, was sent to a CofE primary that didn't peddle anything really toxic in the way of crap, it was all just utterly boring and utterly pointless (those hours fidgeting in church while someone talked on and on and on about fuck all) apart from the music, which I quite liked.

tooty (sorry, nearly typed totty there!), Christmas and Easter were both pagan festivals before we got our mucky paws on them!

prettybird - how could you do that to an innocent child?

tootyflooty on , we covered that. Easter and Christmas are fun celebrations that don't require christianity to enjoy (and were not origianlly christian anyway)

at a 5 year expressing an opinion of it being rubbish, this sounds like serious brain washing at home>>

How do you feel about children wanting to be baptised/confirmed whatever at a young age?

taught about religion>> we're not discussing teaching ABOUT religion, but about teaching religion is true.

Excuse the big posts but I come back and so much has been said.

Oh and I have no idea what "Violent Femmes and German industrial techno" are

I have been mulling your post while at the gym, justa.

I don't think I agree with your assertion that not teaching your children about God (while they're too young to argue!) is by default teaching them atheism - isn't that rather analogous to saying that if you don't get the Big Bang theory into them sharpish you're teaching them creationism?

In my ideal world (which doesn't exist) dd would start questioning the whys and wherefores of the world in her own time, without any particular outside influence, including mine. We would then explain the science as best we could, and then our beliefs if she asked.

Now, maybe it's as well that my ideal world doesn't exist, as in honesty I'm not going to sell the god angle as hard as the science one, but I would rather the state didn't push an "establishment" line towards "worship" in schools. Reflection, awareness of one's own privileges, esp. in comparison to others, awareness of justice and injustice - absolutely. But not worship.

I've had the whole religious upbringing, justa, and very happy it was too - but my life feels much more wonderful and enhanced now I've had time and space to think for myself. I'd just like dd to have that earlier than i did.

OP. The way I feel about it is, i'd teach my child about marxism even though i'm not a marxist, i'd teach my child about the why's and wherefores of vegitarianism even though I eat meat, i'd teach my child about Islam even though i'm not a muslim. And I am quite happy with my child being taught about christianity and even taking part in some rituals associated with it because it's part of her general education. The key to it is IMO to discuss the issues with your child and teach them to think critically about things. If a young child attends church it doesnt mean they are going to get sucked into it, if you have educated them the right way.
I think it's a good opportunity to get the kid to engage in discussions about the meaning of life/God blah blah.

Pushing your own athism creed on the child without discussing anything else is just as bad and brainwashing them with Christianity

Tootyflooty - ds would be in trouble if he told anyone what they believed in was rubbish - not because he was wrong but because he was rude! He knows this.

He has arrived at this conclusion having heard my views and those of the school. He also recently arrived at the view that Santa does not exist - despite my strenuous efforts to ensure the contrary. Of course a 5 year old is capable of determining what seems real to them and what does not.

I'm not sure I agree with that Habb. The truth or falsity of the claim that there is a god has immense importance not least practical importance but also importance for how precisely we think about other truths in a way that the truth or falsity of the big bang claim lacks.

I would and have tried to teach my children about God from as early as possible. I've told them to attach great importance to what they hear about god in school (as well as reminding them that there are different views on the subject).

I used to add: 'I don't believe that there is a god.' Now I just say 'It depends what you mean by "god"'

Rhubarb - he did it to himself! I'd never heard of High Street Muscial until he started commenting on the ads for the next one that was coming up. God knows where he absorbed it from - could be his older (girl) cousin, could be at Out of School Club.....

Maybe we are a bit guilty of encouraging him oin the Mamma Mia one ...... but he is the one who has asked for more Abba CDs and loves singing them in the car.

And we are guilty about the Radio 2 exposure (he even sometimes has to listen to Smooth in the evenings! )

Should I mention that he also loves Peter Kay's "Road to Amarillo" and the Proclaimers' "500 Miles"?

justaboutback - I absolutely understand what you say about your faith being the bedrock of your life and of course this is what you must communicate to your children - you are not giving them the correct world view if you do not. I feel the same way about there being no God - not to tell my children that this would somehow be misleading them. I can (and do) teach them to respect what other people believe and they are genuinely free to come to a different conclusion to me - but I have to start from what I absolutely feel is true.

Goosey: just out of interest: why have you taught your son that Santa exists, and as you said, strenuously tried to make him continue to believe?

um - I wasn't aiming for a direct analogy, threadie, just a response to the idea of a "default" atheism, which justa has now clarified.

What do you say when they ask what you mean by god?

bleh - the Santa thing really is a red herring - it's just a fun rite of passage for children, not a fundamental belief system which could, in some people's views, determine their eternal existence.

violent Femmes and the grandaddies of German Industrial Techno