To expect our parents to BUTT OUT??!!

[LavenderStar]

DP is Jewish but I am not. It has never been a problem, he was brought up in the faith but it isn't a big part of his life now, although he doesn't eat pork or shellfish. His parents are more religious, don't mix meat and milk, go to synagogue etc. but don't have any problem with the way he chooses to live his life now or with me.

Anyway I am 25 weeks and if we have a boy we decided to have him circumcised. It was never a big discussion between us, I actually prefer it (I think it looks nicer and somehow it seems more hygenic) and DP I think wants to do it more as a traditional thing than anything else and obviously every other man in his family has had it done. I think his parents might go so far as to get upset if we didn't although I don't know. But frankly it is nothing to do with his parents.

Anyway so my mother phones up today even though she knows we are going on holiday tomorrow and have a million and one things to do at home and at work, and I told my dad I would speak to her when I got back. Obviously though what she wanted to do was more important and she told me that she was phoning as something had been "bothering" her. She thinks circumcision is "an unecessary procedure" (to put a baby/child under anesthetic) and potentially dangerous (eg they could cut too much off). I actually don't know much about it but we would have it done in a hospital and I am sure it would be fine in this day and age. I am not sure what it has got to do with her anyway.

My parents don't have a religion and have always been very supportive of whatever I have wanted to do in life. I am not sure if she has started interfering now because I am pregnant or because it is actually something we need to consider more thoroughly. What does everyone think?

Also now I just think it will cause a problem between the families whatever we decide to do and everyone has always got on really well. I don't know why parents think they have the right to shove their opinions down our throat, it makes me really angry. DP's mother is already slightly neurotic and we already have to "manage" her, so I could really do without this, I feel like telling them BOTH to f* off!!

Or is it just my hormones?

charitygirl i suppose was not necc the right emoticon for my feelings, but in the abesence of anything else . I just thought there had to be more to it than that is all.

This thread is interesting because it shows how easy it is to sleepwalk into doing something utterly bonkers.

I think that video should be compulsory viewing for anyone who is considering this.

It is sick, beyond sick and it absolutely should be banned in this country. This is supposed to be a civilised society and this is mutiliation of a baby.

How could ANY parent watch this being done to their baby. How could any parent justify this in the name of religion? It is just beyond me, totally beyond me.

Makes me so so so angry.

Take a long hard look at your religion and think about how you can do this to your child. And then stand up to the ridiculous nature of barbaric religious practices that have been around since the dawn of time and get this stopped.

Anyone who has had this done to their child in this manner should be deeply ashamed.

My son had a rare condition which meant that his foreskin was growing and rolling in on itself - the rolled up skin was increasing in size as he grew and forcing his penis back inside him.

In December last year he was circumcised - the only way to solve this problem unfortunately. He was 3.

The surgeon has been very careful to leave as much as he can behind whilst ensuring the problem is solved. My son was in significant pain for several days afterwards and I had to combine the ibuprofen/paracetamol to keep the pain relief effect up for the next few days. Plus they injected him with a long lasting anaesthetic whilst he was under.

Knowing how awful it was for him I could not contemplate doing this to my child without it being absolutely medically necessary.

What a ridiculous, hysterical thread.

Bonkers.

Not bonkers at all, there are plenty of valid points in it.

Aaahhh, LavenderStar, come back. Have a day or so off, but don't leave.
Mn is brilliant for finding out what others think, and the aibu topic is classicly rude and insensitive, don't take it personally.

Please don't leave, this will all be forgotten about, by you and everyone else.

LavenderStar - I think you have remained calm and dignified in the face of some very provocative posts. You'll find that circumcision threads are always very heated on MN. Keep calm, do your research, and then do what is right for your family.

FWIW, I would not have chosen to circumcise if I had had a boy, but I fully understand why you are considering it. And yes, I have watched circumcision being done.

MrsMattie, I find your argument that just because men can't remember being circumcised that it is not barbaric very strange - have you seen a circumcision? Does that mean I can cause physical pain to my son until he's old enough to remember it, because if he can't remember it, it doesn't matter?

That is a ludicrous argument.

No, it is not as barbaric as female circumcision because that causes life long pain and health issues for women who are subjected to it, but it is still barbaric.

I cannot believe that you would stand by and watch this done to your son because your husband wanted it done for some bizarre religious ritual. In that case, if you married someone who believed in female circumcision why would you not let them do that to your daughter?

I am sooooo glad that my dh and I are both atheists.

I just couldn't get worked up about this topic and I think use of thew word 'barbaric' is laughable. Sorry.

I also think this thread has a nasty, offensive undertone.

The thing about medically necessitated circumcisions is that:

a) they are medically necessary (well, duh)
b) they tend to be done to older children under a full general anaesthetic, with as Glitterknickaz confirms, a long lasting local in addition to being unconscious for the op.

My take on it is that you wouldn't expect an adult or older child to have the op without a general. So why is it OK to do that to a baby, apart from the fact that a baby is powerless to kick up a fuss and complain in the way that an older child or adult would? That seems completely twisted to me. Utterly indefensible.

And that is leaving aside the thorny issue of why on earth it is a good idea to cut off any part of a baby's anatomy because "it looks nicer" or "is cleaner". Both of which are bollocks reasons IMO.

What offensive undertone is that MrsMattie?

If you are concerned that posters are attacking the cultural beliefs or practices of religious groups then I would suggest that there are all manner of things done in the name of religion and culture that people can and should question.

As thunderducks (I think) said, there are practices that are outright and properly questioned that are done in the name of culture or religion, which would include female circumcision (in the sense of the clitoral hood being removed rather than the complete removal of clitoris/sewing up of the vaginal opening) or the binding of feet or the stretching of necks. I simply cannot understand the difference between these practices and infant male circumcision.

Foot binding was practised to perpetuate a belief regarding female beauty and small feet, for example, which is not dissimilar to the OP citing aesthetic grounds for circumcision. I read recently that female circumcision has been related to hygiene as well as the suppression of sexuality (and after all the movement for male circumcision in the States was advocated as a means of suppressing masturbation).

Oh - major crossed post with Realityismyonlydelusion.

MrsMattie "I also think this thread has a nasty, offensive undertone."

I hope you are not including MY comment in this, I wouldn't want you to think I have an undertone because I have a major OVERTONE about child abuse.

Dress it up, call it religion, call it aesthetics, it is a disgusting thing to do. It offends me deeply that anyone could hand their sweet baby boy over to have part of their penis cut off, usually without any sort of pain relief.

No undertones here, I am quite happy to yell about it.

Circumcise a boy and it's a widely accepted religious belief so must be okay

Circumcise a girl and people accept that it's genital mutilation

Honestly why can't people use their brains?

I won't post on this thread anymore, don't worry

I refuse to watch that video. The thought of it makes me , I think I would have nightmares.

I have a son and know that no way in hell would I let anybody do that to him unless it was medically necessary. Could not do it.

I think the reason a lot of people in the US have it done is a mistaken belief that they are likely to have to have it done anyway later in life, and at least as a baby they won't remember it Which just seems odd logic to me - I don't care whether he remembers it or not, I don't want anyone to hurt my baby!

Any idea why my post got deleted?

I;ve never had one deleted before. Didn't think I was rude I merely said I thought this practise was barbaric.

How strange

I have never understood why people look at a penis and think "Well, that bit obviously wasn't meant to be there - someone, somewhere's made a mistake. We'll have to chop it off"

Do religious people think "OK, God decided that he wants us to chop a bit off this baby to prove that he's a member of the faith, so in His infinite mercy and compassion He added an extra bit so that we would have something to cut off?"

I'm not being deliberately obtuse, I really don't get it.

And Xenia, if you're still here, for the first time ever, I COMPLETELY agree with you!

MrsMatie - you are bonkers, not this thread. Did you watch the video, look at the links?? If you didn't then you should before saying it's a ridiculous and hysterical thread and if you have looked at them and still think that - then I pity you.

I haven't watched the video (thanks anyway Kit Kat - long time no see.. x) as just looking at the circumcision board had me feeling quite ill....

OP - please, please, watch the video and read the information you have been linked to here.

It is barbaric and I really don't understand how anyone could do this to a child for hygiene or religious reasons, I really don't and I agree it should be illegal to do so.

I really, really feel for anyone who has had to allow this for medical reasons .

Hi chippingin,

Don't blame u for not watching, I had to so I could post it, but tbh I almost wish I hadn't come across this thread.

I don't think the op is actually around any more. I hope she does pop back and watch the video otherwise I wasted my dinner for nothing.

I dont think this thread is hysterical either, I think people are simply reacting to the reality of the situation in the only place they can.

Good to see u anyway!

KKQ