in thinking that children are *almost* always better off if their parents stay together?

[Fleetingglimpse]

Apologies for the name change but I need to ensure anonymity.

Are there any studies that show whether a child is better off if their parents make a huge effort to stay together despite major issues?

If the parents can manage to hide it from the children is it better for the parents to sacrifice their happiness for the childrens?

I have always thought this to be the case but now am faced with actually having the issue in my life.
I will stay with my dh if I know it is the best for my children.

It would make things easier if there was a definitive answer to these questions. I am guessing there isn't so any opinions or experience would be gladly received.

The major issues are i suppose my expectations of a loving marriage vs the realities of what I have.

Dh professes to love me but doesn't believe that I love him. That is basically the issue.
He is horrible to me because for some reason he thinks I don't love him.

I know his parents split up when he was young and I think this has made him insecure about relationships but I am now at the point where I can't do any more. I want out of this but my children are more important that my feelings.
Hence the question. AIBU?

NotanOtter

I think if that's the issue, then the two of you need to see a marriage counsellor and perhaps also a therapist for each of you on your own and try to work through your issues first and then decide if you still need to split.

NotAnOtter - yes, the research I was thinking of is when children stay with the mother.

There is a section in the book on how children fare when raised by a dad.

Here's an extract (slightly paraphrased):

"One US study followed up a group of 4 year old children from the time of their parents' divorce. These children were compared with two groups of children whose parents remained together; in one group the children had a happy marriage, and in the other the parents did not get on. The behaviour of all the children was assessed over six years.

In the first year, the children from divorced families were functioning less well than their counterparts from intact families - even those whose parents did not get on. The children from divorced families were more aggressive, defiant, demanding and lacking in self-control, both at home and at school, than the children from two parent families.

However, by the end of the second year, the situation had changed. It was the boys from intact but unhappy two parent families who showed the highest level of aggression and defiance, although the sons of divorced parents were still fucntioning less well than boys from harmonious two parent homes. The girls from divorced families had returned to normal by this time. There was very little difference between them and the girls from two parent homes where the parents got on well. Six years after divorce, daughters whose mothers had not remarried remained well adjusted. Sons, though improved, still tended to be more non-compliant, impulsive and aggressive in their behaviour.

There is no doubt that divorce is difficult and upsetting for children, and many experience emotional and behavioural problems around this time. But it seems that within two years most children of divorced parents have adapted fairly well. Couples are often encouraged to stay together for the sake of the children. But is it really true that a 'bad' marriage is better for children than divorce? Or do children fare better if their parents separate? Although every family is different, it appears that in the long run it is not always a good idea for parents to remain in a hostile marriage just for the children's sake. If divorce leads to an improved relationship between the parents, divorce can be beneficial for all concerned. But if parents remain in conflict after the divorce, the evidence suggests that it is better for children if their parents do not part."

She goes on to say that the aspects of divorce that are particularly damaging for children are:

• the level of conflict and hostility between parents
• financial hardship
• lack of social support for single mothers
• mothers who are depressed and preoccupied

Fleetingglimpse You obv. have awareness of the issues. Does he acknowledge any of this? Have you tried Relate? (sounds like you have)

very enlightening hester

Sorry about the length of that post!

I was raised by a single parent, btw, after our abusive dad left us. Best thing he ever did for us. Oh, and my brothers are kind, gentle men who are great husbands and fathers. So research can only take you so far.

fg

i think you are looking after the needs of your dc and whatever YOU decide will be best for them....

do you feel loved?

i dont believe in hiding anything

you dont want to later tell your children everything was 'glossed' over etc for their sakes

likewise there is the possibility that as others have said 'you and dh' can truly be happy again

counselling can help but you also need to look deep into yourself and see how 'you' want to live. My children ARE the centre of my world but if my happiness depended on leaving I would leave

FG - please try Relate if you haven't already. Someone very close to me first went on her own, then after a few months her DH agreed to go with her. I remember her saying that when she went on her own she would describe all about HIS issues - how he couldn't believe she really loved him because no one ever had in his family. How controlling he was over money, her going out, etc.. I'd witnessed him saying some cruel things to her. But at the same time, he'd adopted her kids and loved them, and she'd experienced being a single mum before she met him and how awful that was for her and her kids too. They'd since had a few more together. When he finally agreed to counselling too, she realised that alongside HIS issues from upbringing, it was exacerbated by her being extrovert who went out 4 nights a week, spent too much money on coffee and dinners with friends, and when at home was on pc or watching tv, and he felt lonely and rejected. Having that space to talk helped them both to alter, and they are together now, and things seem much healthier. (Though how much do we really know about our friends marriages?)

This clearly isn't a decision you're taking lightly. But an online forum or published study is never going to give you an answer to go/not go. My heart goes out to you, and a good counsellor, and if you're religious your minister, is the only thing I can suggest.

Buttercup, hester edam, - everyone -thanks for all your replies. They have helped alot.

I think I will suggest relate and see what dh's response is.

This sounds horrible but in a way I wish there were more 'major' isuues like him having an affair as it would be a straight forward decision.

NotanOtter to answer your question no I don't feel loved by him at all, but I think he would say the same about me.

I think most studies show that children are deeply affected by hostiility between parents (that was from the children's report recently), also that parents are much worse at hiding things than they think they are (that was on child of our time!).

Stupidly the children's report went on to conclude more people should stay together even though this is not what the evidence points to!

Seperated parents who are able to stand each other/communicate are far better than parents that live together and hate each other. Post break up I reckon it is better if you live as close together as possible though.

Fleeting, I think you'd do well to see a counsellor, too. You said you have 'expectations' and there is nothing wrong with that, but even if you did leave your marriage because these expectations aren't being met, it would be in the best interest of your future happiness to explore what your needs are and how best they are met.

But it's not as simple as 'I fell out of love' or that when you have kids and then you move on when there's not other issues of abuse, addiction, etc. going on.

Please see a counsellor on your own, too.

Speaking as a child of parents who are still together in their eighties despite the fact that one was an alcoholic and the other a suicidal depressive I can honestly say that no, staying together for the sake of the kids is not the best course of action. (with the usual get out clause that all cases are different).

When I realised that my kids and I were not getting on (big style, he eventually became violent after long exercising other subtler forms of domestic abuse) it didn't take me long to weigh up the odds. I told my children than rather than have two unhappy angry parents in the same house they would have a happy parent in two different homes. Job done - it worked.

He refused to go to Relate - that wasn't an option as he didn't have the problem apparently, I did. And if I carried on I would only be provoking him again...

i think children are better off with two parents...i would stay together unless he is being violent to you or the children....how many marriages are blissfully happy all the time?...none.

I think that is only true if parents can stay together amicably.

My parents divorced when I was 14 and my siblings were 12 and 8.
They didnt get along for a long time before then, but hid it remarkably well.
However when they did spilt up I saw a completely different side to my Mum. She laughed a lot, she played silly games with us. I think she just felt lighter and happier and it really showed even though the un-happiness didnt show before iyswim.

My parents were (as far as I was aware, and I was quite an "aware" child...) NEVER happy together. To this day, I really don't know what brought them together. I assume they stayed together for 24+ years "for the sake of the children". They didn't shout and scream at each other, there was no (to my knowledge) philandering, but neither were there any obvious shows of affection, conversations that weren't either about work or us children, or even any common ground. It was deeply dysfunctional. They eventually separated and divorced and both went on to be much happier in themselves etc. The divorce itself wasn't at all pretty, I think it was a good opportunity for 24+ years of resentment to be expressed.

I wish they had split up earlier. I really don't feel I benefitted from living within that unhealthy and unhappy marriage. I have constantly looked for "good" partnerships in my life to use as a basis for some kind of gold standard in relationships, and of course, have not yet found the perfect relationship (I'm certain it doesn't exist, but it doesn't stop me from trying!).

I also wished at times that I had a stable converntional family life to go home to, but was under no illusion that if my parents worked harder, they were in any way able to provide that for me.....

So, no, it often isn't better to stay together. In my opinion. And there was nothing horrible going on, it just wasn't comfortable.

I speak from personal experience when I say sometimes it's better if parents split up, otherwise they make themselves miserable for years because they stayed together 'for the sake of the children'.

Whilst they may not pick up on it when they're very young, they will as they get a bit older.

If you're both unhappy, then do what you can to get back to happy. So long as your children know that they have two happy parents that love them, well, that's the best security you can offer them imho.

according to dc teacher, there is a study saying that the children are better off if parents stay together. even with constant argueing nit he house.

i'm sure just as many people regret getting divorced ....the grass isn't always greener, (it's not easy living with anyone 24/7)...it's hard work....but yeah, if you're living in total misery day in day out...that's no good for anyone.

stichtime - I can't believe that - I honestly can't. Not from my own personal perspective (with my parents arguing constantly), nor from seeing how much more settled my DS's became after DH and I split up.

I'll never forget the day we told DS1 and 2 that he was moving out. DS1 was initially a little sad, understandably, then we told them there'd be no more arguing and a broad grin came onto his face. He even then started helping DH pack some of his stuff.

its only better if the parents stay together when both parents are willing to make an effort to get along and make things work
i would do anything to make my kids happy..but at what cost to myself? being miserable for the next 20 years?
tried that, its no good for anyone

faq, i found that quite difficult to believe as well. but they were both deadly serious. and seemed to believe it themselves.

harleyd absoluley! Kids notice so much of what goes on that we like to think we're hiding from them. Then they'll go off into corners and might even arrive at the conclusion that somehow they're to blame. Especially if they overhear the "if it wasn't for the kids..." line.