to think that men should not expect their wives/partners to remain the 'sex kittens' they once were after having children

[Toppy]

I read this article Where did my sex kitten go? today in the Sunday Times on the tube whilst having a rare toddler free 'me day' courtesy of my DH. (Weirdly it is listed under Women online but was in the Men's Special Style section today)

My jaw just dropped open and hung there for the duration of the article then I sat in shock as I took his opinions in.
AIBU in my utter disgust at this man or have I become so like the woman he wrote about that I am unable to appreciate his point of view?
My gut instinct a year on from having my first child (and putting my career on serious pause) is to think he is an utter t**t but a tiny part of me wondered if all DHs secretly wonder where their 'sex kitten' has gone (not that I ever was one) even if they were up for having kids in the first place.

Since having my DS I have let myself get fat, don't have the libido I once had and am indeed pretty wrapped up in my 1 year old but I would like to pray that this would not force DH to go out and have an affair !
Is Simon Jones' article food for thought or is the author a prize ** ?

(sorry for the asterisks - I am so wound up by this article though)

NAO - I salute you! Six children and holding it together - blimey now that's a woman I admire!

Six!

I am not worthy.

Mooseheart! thanks for that

i know that body wise i must be lucky although i do use a slendertone belt!!!

I am a great believer in keeping a relationship alive. I want to be 'me' not just mummy! That is not to say i do not talk baby stuff etc but i will not let having a baby be 'all consuming'

( I think changing bags sum that up! You can have all the stuff you need in a fab bag no need for a PVC horror!)

Oddly today i got embarrassingly chatted up by a man i 'know' who said so many inappropriate things i came away quite stressed...

my 6 yr old was there too

When dd1 was small I spent weeks and months doing not much else other than holding her, feeding her, looking after her. It was magical, counts as one of the happiest times in my life. Why can't a woman be allowed to fully immerse herself in the experience, why does she immediately have to spring back to what she used to be like?

she doesn't Emkana

no man worth his salt would anticipate that she would!

it sounds like bliss

My sister told me once: 'Having children is for some people the ultimate excuse for everything'

'..I can not meet with friends since i had the baby, we cant go holidays, we cant have a clean house, we cant help friends or family, i cant have shower, i cant go clothes shopping, we cant have sex..' It is all the baby's fault

Frankly, I never had a clean house before I had a baby so having one after would have been a real achievement.

Also, I'm sure the aristocracy had wet nurses galore and the rest. What about normal people, though? I don't think they were expected to be all to all.

Horton at the clean house

At least you dont blame your DC

I DREAM of having a wet nurse

i would be a mother of 12!

Hmm, I had a baby that wouldn't be put down, yet still managed to make myself look OK and do some housework thanks to a magical piece of equipment called a sling: yes, I did washing/ironing/cooking while I didn't put ds down. Amazing.

The man did take things to an extreme, not all men are like him. I suppose the fact that he didn't want children doesn't help. Unlike a lot of men, he clearly didn't change the way he sees the world after his child was born. I know for my dh our dcs are more important than anything, even his job. This man clearly continues to see a career as the most important thing in his life.

It's unrealistic of the author of that article to expect his wife to be looking like a sex kitten all the time, but sometimes it's nice to make an effort. Not only for dh, but also for myself and my self esteem. I find that on days where I've made an effort I'll walk taller and feel more confident. Other days I'm too tired to be bothered. There's got to be something inbetween, hasn't there?

I do think that sex is an important part in a relationship. With both dcs the 1st year after the birth our sex life was I suppose a bit quieter, but not non-existent. I had always enjoyed sex before children, so couldn't and still can't see why the birth of my dcs would change that.

belgian i agree

i am a great believer in the old adage (?) the more sex you have - the more you want

Spero, with all the good will in the world how can you call other peoples experienc es 'nonsence' above your own when you freely admit, "And i have met mothers, been to their homes etc and just been bewildered by why they say they are having such a tough time."

Your bewilderment does not constitute others shortfalls, but your own in being unable to comprehend any expereince beyond your own. In your situation, you are entitled to congratulate yourself for being lucky, not attack others for haing more an average expereince.

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That article gives me no real sense of either Frances or Maria's personalities. I don't think he saw either of them as real people, before or after the babies. Aren't there underlying characteristics that people have and keep, whether or not they get fat or lose interest in work or become obsessed with babies or whatever? I have no sense that at any point in these relationships the writer ever had an intimate sense of the other person, connected on a level of deep private jokes or whatever.

The article has the following sentence that I feel sums up the underlying characteristics the writer liked:

"Maria was challenging, intelligent, great fun and a poignant reminder of the beginning of my relationship with Frances."

In my view it is those characteristics that sustain relationships for the long haul, not how someone looks. They are the things I love in my wife more than anything and if she had lost them after we had children then I would have felt very sad indeed. Happily, she is still as challenging, intelligent and fun as she was. I hope I still am for her. We are both of course a little bit older and saggier - but still trying hard.

Having said all that, I do not agree with the sentiments expressed in the article overall.

ABetaDad, in answer to your earlier query, I am a family lawyer and therefore probably know far more than is healthy about relationship breakdown.

Horton - good point well made about the sex kitten expectations.

Sorry if you think I'm being harsh or unable to see beyond my limited world view; my points are really directed to what I think is a false and unhelpful assumption about the amount of 'chaos' it is normal and expected to follow in one baby's wake. I think this does tie in with a negative impact that parenting can sometimes have on relationships, mainly because people aren't upfront about their expectations.

If you just have one baby, do not have PND and have a supportive partner, I just don't accept that it requires a 'superwoman' to care for the baby and do some housework and look after your appearance.

I don't like this assumption that to achieve this requires super powers, because I don't think it helps in promoting loving and supportive relationships. I can understand why some men get pissed off if such a situation drags on for many months.

anyone hear of a wife divorcing their dh becuase he got a bhudda belly, went bald and was shit in bed becuase he was too tired?

custardo. Yes.

tbh i have never ome across anyone who thinks that their partner or wife 'let go' after having a baby.

I've re-read the article again and I read between the lines that the author is a doctor (or some medical pro whose bedside manner i would not like to receive) and who is extrememly materialistic. he wants the professional, dynamic, head-hunted, assertive, confident, physically attractive woman on his arm - a trophy to show off and be 'proud of, because she's mine', and he wants the exciting, risque sex never to stop; he is living in his own fantasy world of sorts.

Marriage should allow 2 people the space to change. We can't all be the same person we were in our early 20s. And wants/needs/challenges etc can change and should be allowed, rather than the author expecting his wives to remain within their views/promises when he first met them.

Parent hood changes people and whilst he admits he recognises this he hasn't given his wife her space - he's placing his timetable of parental acceptances onto her, and it shows she was wanting to do things her way. Maybe they weren't able to speak about this - or maybe he didn't hear what she said to him. She maybe didn't expect motherhood to be all encompassing, or the bond between her and her child so awesome.

From a personal note, I was married for 7 years before we tried for a baby. My DH always maintains having children was my choice - well I dont ever recall him protesting or refusing me! DS was born after 8 years marriage. We waited because I was changing jobs and had a 5 year training programme to deal with, and I respected his wish that we waited until I was qualified. I was professional, confident, sexually attractive, assertive... etc. After the birth of DS I ended up with very bad PND and turned from the above-mentioned into someone who couldnt comprehend TV shows, converations or follow the plot in a book, couldnt think what to put into a baby bag, was plagued with horrendous hallucinations, visions and bad dreams etc - in essence I became what I can only describe as a 'blancmange-head'. I was off work for a year and when the time came when I HAD to go back (for financial reasons) it absolutely freaked me out. The PND lasted well over 2 years - it took a long time for ME to come back, andI have!! It affected DH too and he finally agreed to try for #2 (due in May). Saying that DH still wants me to be the best I can be for myself and for him...

I used to think his attitude was shallow, but why not want to have someone attractive as yours? But not at the expense of being shallow and materialistic like the author.

I agree it can be the other way too - woman leaves husband.

Tbh i would be very pissed off if my husband only talked about baby poo and told me every second how tired he is. But not if he went bald.

And yes, if you have one baby, NOT PND, a loving husband, washing machine and dishwasher then you are not superwoman

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