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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that day care centres or 'nurseries' should be banned?

588 replies

Goodomen · 25/02/2009 22:24

Having spent some time working (doing supply) in several different nurseries I have been appalled by the treatment of the babies and and young children.

The babies spend most of the day crying, desperately wanting to be held or have some kind of one to one attention.

They are all forced to 'nap' at the same time whether they are tired or not.

They are put in highchairs and fed one by one with the poor children at the end of the row crying until it is their turn to be fed.

The worst part is when the parent arrives to collect their child and asks how they have been they are told 'He/She has been fine, had a lovely time' even if the child has been crying all day!

Why oh why would anyone out there child in such a place?
If you have to work get a childminder!

OP posts:
katiestar · 26/02/2009 10:54

Several years ago I was doing a child psychology course and as part of that spent time in a baby room at a nursery.
The nursery was run by a lovely woman who carefully selected and retained lovely staff with higher than 1:3 ratio. However she was unfortunately no business woman and couldn't make any money at it.
the nurser was bought out by a childcare company who 'turned it around' to make it profitable.They kept the same staff but increased the number of children as far as they legally could.
Then I began to see the type of things the OP is describing occurring.The wife of the owner of the company worked there and when she had twins left because she could not find any good enough childcare !!
Sorry if it upsets anyone but I really believe a nursery run on the 1:3 ratio will struggle to meet the physical and can't meet the emotional needs of a baby some of the time.
Please read Steve Biddulph's BOOk 'Raising babies- Should Under 3s go to nursery' New saliva testing techniques show that stress hormaone levels in apparently content nursery children is much higher than in children with a CM or relative.
I don't think the OP is being unkind .But parents have to know the facts to make decisions

rubyslippers · 26/02/2009 10:55

as i have said am sure there are crap nurseries and these should be reported - no-one is disagreeing with that

i think people are riled by the OP which states that nurseries should be banned - and "why oh why would anyone put there child in such a place"

that is hardly going to get a reasonable debate going

PrimulaVeris · 26/02/2009 10:55

It's not that the issue of poor nurseries sinkingfast - that's a subject worthy of debate

It's the fact that the op is using that as a way of condemning those who do choose to work - Georgimama's last post sums it up suberbly.

georgimama · 26/02/2009 10:56

I agree cory, making blanket statements about any kind of childcare based on limited experience is stupid.

That's why I don't even say DS's nursery was a bad nursery - it just wasn't right for him anymore.

londonone · 26/02/2009 10:56

georgimama you said
"If I "took a break" from my career until my son was school age (so not a baby at all, actually) I would have a permenant break - I wouldn't have a career to go back to."

If you look at my posts you will see that I am talking about babies and I actually mention below 18 montsh. I would choose to wait until school age but that was simply for myself. BTW what exactly is your job?

PrimulaVeris - We will have to agree to disgaree then as I do believe that parenting is a responsibility not a right and that you should be financially responsible for your children.

kiddiz · 26/02/2009 10:57

IwishIwasmoreorganised ...I agree the op's thread title was unreasonable. But I do think she has a point about some nurseries. I disagree with her complete faith in cm though. Because if there are bad nurseries there must be bad cm too.
I had to leave ds1 with a childminder from the age of 6 months. I had taken an enhanced maternity package from work which required me to return to work after my maternity leave ended. Nursery wasn't an option as there weren't any where I lived then. Ds1 has sn and at that age had a cleft palate which hadn't been repaired. I got a list of registered cm from social services which were listed alphabetically. I got to the Ws before I found someone who was even prepared to accept a baby with sn let alone one who I felt happy to leave him with.
I liked this cm and I'm sure she was very caring but she was never going to be able to give my son the one to one care he needed. If I'd had a choice I would never have left him there but I didn't. She used to tell me he'd eaten types and quantities of food I knew just wasn't true. (His sn and cleft palate meant he was a poor eater). Luckily for me he only went 3 part days a week as, although I had to go back to work, they did allow me to reduce my hours. I also took alot of unpaid leave and handed in my notice as soon as possible. Financially I was no better off returning to work by the time I had paid cm's fees. I'm always curious when people say they have to return to work to keep a roof over their heads. On average nursery fees there wouldn't be enough left from my wages to pay even my reasonably modest mortgage. Which is why I subsequently worked evenings and weekends when dh was able to care for dcs without the need for paid childcare.

rubyslippers · 26/02/2009 10:59

We will have to agree to disgaree then as I do believe that parenting is a responsibility not a right and that you should be financially responsible for your children.

this is not always possible for a host of reasons

the cost of raising a child is around £250k

have you got that stashed in your savings

there is never a right time to have childrne, some times are better than others though

spokette · 26/02/2009 10:59

In the earlier posts, there were comments about 1:3 ratio of nursery nurse and babies in baby rooms.

Well I was 1:2 with my twins and they sat in rows and had to wait their turn to be fed, held, cuddled and loved. No lasting damage done from what I can see.

Pity the woman who has triplets or quads or even octuplets.

thekillingofdaftpunk · 26/02/2009 11:02

georgimama..sorry, i'm not trying to make you feel you're doing anything wrong...it's just the whole nursery thing annoys me a bit...(not sure why as i've never used one)

i want to bring my dc up..not a stranger...if things go wrong i've only got myself to blame...buck stops with me...their mother.

georgimama · 26/02/2009 11:03

"I do believe that parenting is a responsibility not a right and that you should be financially responsible for your children."

What a fatuous thing to say. Is there anyone who does think people have a right to have children?

I am a trainee solicitor. Why do you ask?

Actually, I'm not interested. You will now start thinking up alternative time lines for me to "prove" that I could have stayed off work until DS was 18 months old (he's two now so thank God you think it's OK for me to work now!) and I don't care what you think of me.

londonone · 26/02/2009 11:03

georgiemama - you said "I object to being told I should give up work whilst my son is pre-school by someone who knows jack about children in general, and certainly knows nothing about me or my son"

Of course I know nothing about you or your son but you are wrong to say i know nothing about children in general. I suggest you refrain from making statements like that. I would suggest that in fact although you are an expert on your son in fact YOU are the one who knows jack about children in general. Of course if you are trained in child development or education do please correct me.

londonone · 26/02/2009 11:05

georgimama - there are plenty of people who think that everyone has a right to have children.

PrimulaVeris · 26/02/2009 11:05

londonone

sinkingfast · 26/02/2009 11:05

Well parents will always have to work, that's a fact of life and working mothers are here to stay, so it's not even worth wasting your breath debating against someone who disagrees with that.

I guess what has changed is that our generation of parents are forced to look outside the family for childcare as so many of us live away from our families. Mothers have always worked but chances are in the past, their children were looked after by a family member, rather than by a nursery/CM.

If my MIL had looked after my children, I know that they would have received the kind of unconditional love that would have been my ideal when looking for childcare, even if she would have fed them great slabs of cake every day .

But again, a great many of us don't have that kind of local support network, so we just need to strive to improve the childcare that is available and so the OP definitely must report those nurseries.

georgimama · 26/02/2009 11:05

Mmm, I'm not going to get into a row with you daftpunk, but do you honestly think that working mothers aren't bringing up their children? He's with his child minder 8.5 hours per day. Rest of the time he barely leaves my side.

thekillingofdaftpunk · 26/02/2009 11:09

honest answer georgimama...no i don't think women who work full-time are bringing up their children...someone else is.

at least you're child is with a c/m, that's better than a nursery imo.

londonone · 26/02/2009 11:09

at which post primula?

londonone · 26/02/2009 11:11

I completely agree daft punk. As evidenced by the poster who said the nursery even toilet trained her child.

georgimama · 26/02/2009 11:11

I don't give a monkies if you're Mirriam Stoppard. My point is you don't know anything about me, and you think it is OK to have opinions, and express them loudly, about me, my family arrangements and working parents in general, when you have no clue what it is actually like to be a parent.

georgimama · 26/02/2009 11:13

Oh okay daftpunk, obviously I just lock him in a cupboard the other 15.5 hours of the day.

wannaBe · 26/02/2009 11:13

I think people are missing the point here.

People are saying that the op must report these nurseries, but in actual fact these nurseries aren't technically doing anything wrong. If they are following the legal ratios for babies vs adults (and iirc the op was referring to babies in nursery rather than older children), it is not possible to be cuddling/holding/comforting three babies at a time. It is not possible to feed three babies at a time. therefore it stands to reason that babies may have to cry more than they might do at home or in a 1-1 setting.

The fact is that in legal terms, these conditions are considered acceptable as childcare. Reporting to ofsted would achieve nothing, as the nurseries are not breaking the law.

georgimama · 26/02/2009 11:14

And I'm so relieved to hear you think my son being with a CM is slightly more acceptable than being at a nursery, that was worrying me.

OrmIrian · 26/02/2009 11:14

Erm no they aren't OP. I think you must have been very unlucky

PrimulaVeris · 26/02/2009 11:14

The one at 11.03.06, londonone. The second para. I think crosses that thin line between disagreement and personal insult.

As an aside I'd have thought that there is no one view on anything in any professional field - lots of views and opposing ones. I hadn't realised that a professional qualification was a prerequisite for bringing up children either.

OrmIrian · 26/02/2009 11:16

I see it's moved on.