to think that day care centres or 'nurseries' should be banned?

[Goodomen]

Having spent some time working (doing supply) in several different nurseries I have been appalled by the treatment of the babies and and young children.

The babies spend most of the day crying, desperately wanting to be held or have some kind of one to one attention.

They are all forced to 'nap' at the same time whether they are tired or not.

They are put in highchairs and fed one by one with the poor children at the end of the row crying until it is their turn to be fed.

The worst part is when the parent arrives to collect their child and asks how they have been they are told 'He/She has been fine, had a lovely time' even if the child has been crying all day!

Why oh why would anyone out there child in such a place?
If you have to work get a childminder!

LOL at georgimama - Last time I checked I didn't say anything about you in particular I have simply stated my views generally. If YOU feel it is aimed at YOU then that is YOUR issue. I am perfectly entitled to have opinions about people putting babies in nurseries same as I can have an opinion on Barack Obama or whether i like orange juice smooth or with bits. It's not about you personally, get over yourself. I asked abouit your job as you kept banging on about how important it was.

Crikey moses. Londonone, you asked if it's okay to have an opinion about parenting before you're a parent. Well it is, but no-one here will take you very seriously, however many courses you've done. I had all kind of opinions before I had DS which I now laugh at, ruefully, while bashing my head gently against the wall.

The only thing I'm sure of now is that I love my DS and every choice I make is based around my hope for his happiness. And I'm sure other mothers feel the same. We might make different choices but we make them for the same reason - the love we feel for our child(ren).

That's very true wannabe. Maybe then, we should be demanding better ratios for babies in nurseries/at CMs? That would go a long way to address most of the problems in the OP.

primula - my post was in response to georgimamas post saying I knew jack about children!

I didn't say my job was important, not to anyone except me. I said it was one which doesn't accomodate a five year (or even an 18 month) chunk out of the workplace, unlike some other careers.

..sinkingfast

sinking - i agree with you

it is so frutsrating that threads like this always turn into a bunfight, but then it did start off on a very aggressive note

"think the problem is that nursery work attracts young women who haven't any other options. Their education level is often low (to the point of being almost illiterate IME). This doesn't make them bad carers, automatically, but it does mean that girls with fewer options are going to end up thinking this is an easy option - and that's a far cry from being the kind of person who really cares about babies and children and actively chooses a career working with them.

Also the fact that minimum wage is all that's on offer, even for the management (this was true when I was looking into nurseries) - you are going to get people working there who simply don't have any other options."

What a load of rubbish! I went to college and studied for my NNEB for two years because I wanted to work with children and thought I'd be good at it, not because I had a low education level and I didn't have any other options Every single person that I can remember from college, wanted to work in childcare for the same reasons. What a ridiculous and sweeping statement? Yes, the pay is usually dire and working in a nursery is not always easy, so a round of applause to the dedicated staff that do it because they want to (despite the pay) and not because they're good for nothing else. Pah!

becstarlitsea - I am not saying I know best, simply that I have an opinion same as others have their own opinions.

No, I'm with you sinkingfast, I entirely agree that trying to turn back the social clock by however many years would get us back to the distant utopia where all households could survive on one wage (a time I don't believe ever existed) is pointless, so the key is about quality childcare.

Unfortunately other people are, as usual, more interested in mud slinging at other women for making different decisions to them.

it's not mud slinging georgimama

i think women have been sold a lie...we can't have it all.

If one were to rephrase the op, what she might actually have been trying to say is:

Nurseries have to adhere to minimum standard of 1-3, this means that babies can often be left crying/that they cannot all be fed at the same time, thus meaning that some babies have to wait for their lunch while others are being fed/that they cannot all be comforted at the same time. Therefore, the minimum legal requirements are, IMO, unacceptable and should be changed.

Perhaps the op title should have read "Ibu to think that the minimum requirements in nurseries is unacceptable and should be changed?"

I'm afraid nothing will ever convince me that a childminder is a good idea so I will refrane from comment...

But why londonone do you want to come on a thread which is about the quality of childcare and start slinging around your opinions about whether or not women with young children should work? That is the point.

You say that you personally have decided you won't work until your children are school age, so you won't even be using childcare. You are entitled to your opinion that children should be at home with their parents until whatever arbritary age you care to state, but what is that opinion adding to the sum of human knowledge on this thread?

Nothing.

WannaBe makes sense in her last post.

And the OP does have some valid points.

I owrked in a private nursery for 18 months and left when I had my dd2.
There was no way I owuld have sent her there under 3 years old.

And whilst parents can, and should, pop in unannounced, usually there is a doorbell/buzzer to gain entry. So you don't always see what is going on when you arrive.

You might think so but I appear to have a good career and a happy family. There is a price (when I'm at work I'm not with my son, and I am paying it.

There is a price for being a SAHM too. Fine if you are happy to pay it, I don't want to.

Exactly daftpunk, well said. I find it sad that some posters think SAHM or SAHD are some kind of impossible dream, when there are many families all over the country proving that it isn't the case. It is that we should be aiming for rather than improving childcare so more and more people can go out to work.

Well over the last 10 years I've done full time SAHM, Full time WOHM, part time work (at home and outside the home), nanny, nursery and childminder.

They all have their pros and cons depending on 1) age of child 2) personality of child 3) presence of any SN 4) availability of childcare locally and 5) financial circumstances.

Anyone who is thick blinkered enough to think that their way is the only way and should be applied to every family in the land and that any other method is sub-standard childcare isn't really worth listening to.

I have only once been unhappy with the childcare (my eldest son) received and so I removed him. Generally most people do the best they can in the situation they are in.

Becstar - hear hear.

I can't bear these judgmental threads. They make my blood boil.

"It is that we should be aiming for rather than improving childcare "

"Anyone who is thick blinkered enough to think that their way is the only way and should be applied to every family in the land and that any other method is sub-standard childcare isn't really worth listening to."

How funny that your post appeared directly below londonone's last post mrsturnip. And how right you are.

" I find it sad that some posters think SAHM or SAHD are some kind of impossible dream, when there are many families all over the country proving that it isn't the case"

They are 'proving' it because one partner is earning enough to keep them. Of course it's possible if DH is earning a good wage. What about those families where the mother is the main earner. Of should they not be allowed to breed? Eugenics by economics anyone?

wannabe, that's the crux of the issue for me. Plus also, I thin as parents we should be very wary of the "box-ticking" mentality that the Govt. is forcing on child carers. I can totally understand that they are doing it for the best of intentions but IMO, a good nursery/childcare worker has that special "something" that cannot be quantified. It bothers me that Ofsted are going round checking on whether nurseries have got all the right paperwork and not turning up announced on a regular basis and just sitting there for a day observing. That would soon sort the wheat from the chaff.

georgimama - I don't know what your issue is, my opinion in the debate is as valid as any others. I don't want to get into personal insult but you seem very determind to do so. You say you are happy with your choice so why get so upset that not everyone agrees it is the right choice?

My opinion is as valid as yours as a I am a member of society and the way that families work is in the interest of everyone.

Indeed OrmIrian. We tried levying that charge at londonone earlier, but she appears to agree that you shouldn't have children unless you can "afford" them, whatever that means.