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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that day care centres or 'nurseries' should be banned?

588 replies

Goodomen · 25/02/2009 22:24

Having spent some time working (doing supply) in several different nurseries I have been appalled by the treatment of the babies and and young children.

The babies spend most of the day crying, desperately wanting to be held or have some kind of one to one attention.

They are all forced to 'nap' at the same time whether they are tired or not.

They are put in highchairs and fed one by one with the poor children at the end of the row crying until it is their turn to be fed.

The worst part is when the parent arrives to collect their child and asks how they have been they are told 'He/She has been fine, had a lovely time' even if the child has been crying all day!

Why oh why would anyone out there child in such a place?
If you have to work get a childminder!

OP posts:
BlueBumedFly · 25/02/2009 22:35

I think the OP is a troll in disguise - how to make a lot of working mums feel like shite - well done, do you feel better now? Did you have a really shocking day or something?

I use my DDs Key Carer as a babysitter, what more could you ask for? Someone registered, qualified and someone DD would be very happy to wake up to.

Hideously annoying post.... off to search out more interesting stuff

Legacy · 25/02/2009 22:35

Has a nusery treated you badly by any chance ?

Why are you doing supply work? Unable to get a full-time job?

I'm sure any nursery willing to employ you Goodomen would be suspect anyway.....

There are lots of fab nurseries out there - my DCs went to one. We often arrived unannounced and all was fine. A friend worked there, and we knew all the ins and outs.

StewieGriffinsMom · 25/02/2009 22:36

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Hulababy · 25/02/2009 22:36

lol @ "Sorry, I didn't mean my OP to sound as melodramatic as it does. I genuinely don't want to make parents feel guilty, I just really think that these nurseries are not a good idea for babies. "

So what was the purpose of your post, if not to make people wary of their chosen childcare?

"I think babies need to be looked after by someone who loves them, or at least can care for them individually."

So, remind me - how many babies and children can a childminder care for at the same time? Oh yes, more than one in majority of cases I belive? So, the individual care comes from where exactly?

"There are other options available apart from nurseries. "

Yes, there are. There are good and bad versions in ALL of the childcare options. It is for a parent to seek out to find the best option for their child, and to monitor it and see how it goes. I belive most parents can tell if their little one is upset and the majoirty will act upon it.

Hulababy · 25/02/2009 22:37

Oh - and to repeat:

did you report all of these nurseries that were not treting babies and children right?

sb6699 · 25/02/2009 22:38

Is it you who thinks that working mums cause the recession?

StewieGriffinsMom · 25/02/2009 22:38

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Message withdrawn

Ronaldinhio · 25/02/2009 22:42

you are so right

I love dropping my children off at baby jail everyday to worry about whatever sort of torture the neglectful but devious warders have in store for them

you are absolutely not being unreasonable

loopylil · 25/02/2009 22:42

why are you having a moan on here? phone up the council/ofsted put it in writing and do something proactive about those places.
as you clearly stand by and watch this happen that effectively makes you worse then they are.
any place i put my child ill check you aren't there as a carer first
stop attention seeking here and do something useful with your complaint

willowthewispa · 25/02/2009 22:43

Goodomen - I'm also a nursery nurse and have been doing supply recently, probably been to 10-12 different nurseries this year. I agree with some of you points and disagree with others.

Firstly I should say that the VAST majority of nursery workers are loving caring people who adore children. But, they are paid minimum wage or not much better and expected to do a ridiculous amount of planning.

Ratios, especially in baby rooms, make it very pressured - 3 babies to 1 adult is very hard work, especially as a lot of the time one or more adult is likely to be changing a nappy/filling in paperwork/preparing a bottle etc.

I have NEVER worked in a nursery where babies are forced to nap! I doubt this happens very much at all.

Feeding times in baby rooms are tough if a lot of the children need spoon-feeding, it does often involve a row of highchairs, a lot of stress and crying, and shovelling a spoon in one by one.

Some babies do spend most of the day crying There just aren't enough adult arms to hold all the babies that need it as much as they need it.

Feedback to parents at the end of the day does often gloss over the bad bits and put a positive spin on things.

Personally, I would not willingly place a baby of mine in a nursery, though I understand why parents do (reliability, more than one person caring for children, cost). It is just not an environment designed for babies. A good childminder is better for babies than the most outstanding nursery imo, but there are bad childminders out there too. If I did have to use a nursery, I would only go for small babyrooms, 9 babies maybe. The most heartbreaking nurseries I have worked in are the ones with 20 or more under-2s.

spicemonster · 25/02/2009 22:44

Oh do sod off. If you think childcare is so dreadful, go and get a job doing something else.

Desiderata · 25/02/2009 22:44

Ach! Leave her alone. Lots of people feel strongly about early nursery care.

Yes, it's an insensitive post, but life is insensitive.

I'm on record, and have been flamed a hundred times, for saying that I would not put a child under the age of three into nursery care.

Particularly boys.

She's as entitled to her opinion as the rest of us. The widespread use of nursery care in this country is raising eyebrows and house prices.

We're all riding a horrible treadmill at the moment. It would be good to get off it and consider some other options.

BlueBumedFly · 25/02/2009 22:46

Can you 'FORCE' a baby to nap? What do they use at your place Goodomen, chloroform?

willowthewispa · 25/02/2009 22:47

By the way, I think nurseries could be made much better for babies:

*smaller number of babies per room

*at least a 1:2 baby:staff ratio under 18 months

*decent pay for workers, and more paid non-contact time for them to do paperwork/planning

Goodomen · 25/02/2009 22:47

I am a working mum.

Hulababy, I haven't reported anything to anyone as there is nothing illegal or unprofessional to report.

How could a nursery operate without having arranged nap times and meal times?
Every baby cannot be held all the time.

Very young children need to be looked after by someone who loves them or at least can meet their needs.

I didn't think about how my OP would make others feel and I am sorry for that.

I should have worded it better, however I believe that what I have said i right for young babies.

OP posts:
Hulababy · 25/02/2009 22:48

I will not leave it alone TBH; I am allowed to feel strongly, and express that, that I disagree.

Both of DD's nurseries were much smaller than 9 babies per room. First one - bigger of the two had 6, smaller one had 4 IIRR. Ratios were maintained at both during nappy times, etc when a member of staff had to leave the room for a while. Infact both nurseries had more staff than legally required to have.

Desiderata · 25/02/2009 22:48

.. and I was talking about the OP there, not willow.

Why don't you take some notice of Willow's post, Spice? It's well balanced, and hardly deserving of the rudeness and venom you hit back at her with.

Twims · 25/02/2009 22:49

Only read the first page so apologies but having worked in several different nurseries I have only been appalled by the treatment of the children, at one nursery and after mentioning it to the manager it was dealt with.

"They cried all day"

The babies spent most of the day content and when they were upset they were either consoled, or fed; as most babies there was a reason for the tears, hunger, tired, wanting comfort, however even a mum of twins or more than 1 child will say that if you're dealing with another child, the baby has to wait a minute of to, for you to deal with them.

"They are all forced to 'nap' at the same time whether they are tired or not".

Depending on the age of the child they were put down for naps as they would at home babies under a year would sleep throughout the day and toddlers after lunch - which is normal for most children - if they had a morning nap we would try and put down in the morning but if there is stuff going on they won't go to sleep and would sleep at lunch time. As you have worked in a nursery you will know that it is hard to get 11 1 year olds to sleep but also know this is partly becuase they don't want to miss a thing and 2 that they giggle or try to play with each other - you don't just close the door on their bedroom and let them wind down. If the baby/toddler didnt want to go to sleep they weren't forced but we did try and get them to sleep to make sure the child wasn't overtired later.

"They are put in highchairs and fed one by one with the poor children at the end of the row crying until it is their turn to be fed"

Again what age? Parent's of more than 1 have this trouble taking turns to feed the babies With the ratio of babies to staff being 1:3 they shouldn;'t be waiting that long - but you do get the impatient eaters.

"The worst part is when the parent arrives to collect their child and asks how they have been they are told 'He/She has been fine, had a lovely time' even if the child has been crying all day!"

I have had days where the child has been upset, they're still settling in, got a cold and just had one of the days - which we all get - and yes have said they've been fine - they enjoyed this, they liked this but I have always said there have been a couple of tears

"Why oh why would anyone out there child in such a place? If you have to work get a childminder!"

Because you also get bad childminders but the hope is that in a nursery if someone sees this happening to your child, or the children in the setting that they would strive to make the nursery better and speak to the manager about any problems - I used to annoy my boss moaning about little things because I wanted the best for the children. So is it really the setting that is bad or you who have just come and bitched on here but haven't told us what you've done to help.

Hulababy · 25/02/2009 22:49

Yes - you should be reporting as this is not good practise and the comments you make are things that PFSTED, etc would not be happy about. I think you are failing those children in sitting back and doing nothing. Sorrry, but if you feel so strongly that the children wre not being cared for appropriately, legal or otherwise, then you should be reporting it so that parents are made aware.

StewieGriffinsMom · 25/02/2009 22:50

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MakemineaGandT · 25/02/2009 22:50

Well, although I think you worded your post rather harshly I largely agree with you. I am lucky that I have been able to stay at home with my small children, but if I'd had to work I think I'd have gone down the childminder/nanny route rather than nursery, for all the reasons you describe.

Hulababy · 25/02/2009 22:50

Amnd why would a childminder love a baby or child any better? they have ratios too you know.

Should only a prent or family look after them now?

Lilyloo · 25/02/2009 22:51

Goodomen i also worked in nurserys and i do agree with some of your points tbh
esp the rows of babys in highchairs i think this is unavoidable if a few babys are waiting and hungry they will inevitably cry as you can only work your way around the chairs.
Obviously they dont have 1-1 so there will be some points of the day they cry.

However to say they cry all day and are 'forced' to nap i think is more down to the nursery rather than 'nurseries' in general!

I still chose a nursery rather than childminder for my dc!

willowthewispa · 25/02/2009 22:51

Hulababy - one of the nicest working environments I ever had was a Surestart nusery with 6 under 2 spaces and 3 members of staff. Could not have been a more different experience from a nursery with 24 under 2 in one big, partitioned room and 8 members of staff.

chewitt · 25/02/2009 22:52

Give the OP a break. Nurseries good or bad have an agenda - they are businesses run for profit and as such putting the child's needs first may not always be a priority. I think the OP is expressing shock at having seen such bad practice and as a supply nursery worker she gets to see a lot of real life situations which as a parent/customer you would not experience. You never know what goes on when you leave your child in a care situation whether its nursery, childminder, grandparent or friend.