to expect to use a disabled toilet when I'm out with the pram?

[CT123]

I can't use the ladies when I have my baby with me in the pram. The only thing I can do is wheel him into the disabled toilet with me. But the disabled toilets have special locks on them, which presumably disabled people have special keys for. I appreciate that they want to stop able-bodied people hogging disabled toilets but what else can I do?

Baby changing facilities in a disabled toilet is an ecceptable reason to use a disabled loo if it's stated on the door. Although my 20 year old daughter who is w/chair bound with cerebral Palsy does find this quite demeaning . It can take up to 20mins or so to change baby and in that time the disabled person on the other side of the door would be in great discomfort. My daughter has a Urostomy bag fitted to her stomache [her urine comes out of her stomache into a bag] if the bag becomes full we have to empty it pretty quick or it could burst. It is NOT a convenience that she gets to the loos quick it's a real major neccessity [sp]. She uses an electric w/chair and very often even the Disabled toilets don't have enough room. She cannot weight bear and I have to struggle to hold her up and 'sort her out' BY MYSELF!. I also have a 24 year old son and would never have used the Disabled loo when he was young. A couple of mums have said on here when they used the Disabled loo no-one was waiting when they went in and came out..that does'nt mean in the time they were in there there was'nt Disabled people who came to the loo, saw it was engaged and then not being able to wait had to desperatly search for the only other Disabled loo in the shopping centre. If someone was behind me with a toddler who desperatly wanted to go to the loo and I was in a queue in the non-Disabled loos I would let them go in front of me, it's called kindness and consideration however that seems to be lacking when it comes to my disabled daughters needs.

It is the total lack of respect that actually no longer surprises me.

Your need for space is more important than my child's need to use a toilet that actually allows her to access the toilet safely or if she has had an accident in her pullups - allows me to clean her up with some dignity. She needs the space for clean ups and she needs the handles to access the toilet.

Your children are precious but sod the rest of the world.

Yes it is hard and it is inconvenient but bloody hell people have done it and do do it. I have crammed the two older dds in a cubicle and left the door open for dd3 in the pram. Strangely no one ever bothered to look in or whatever - they very quickly worked out what was happening. As dd1 cannot be trusted to stay outside by herself DUE to her disability - I had to bring her in the cubicle with me. Yes we were playing - you shift one inch this way and I will shift one inch that way and so on. IN that instance as I was the one that needed the toilet I would never have dreamed of using a disabled toilet even then. Not my place.

Far too easy to just nip into the disabled loo. Whilst you were in there - we could have come running up to find it taken and I have had to rush dd1 to another disabled loo or she has had the accident and I have had to take her to the car to clean her up with some semblence of privacy.

Funnily dd2 aged 4 gets it - why don't adults.

Yes we can be annoyed at shops not providing adequate spaces for everyone BUT everytime you take a disabled space you are showing them that hey - you will just place someone else's needs below your and play to those people who think - sod the fact that you may be spending a lot of money and time in this establishment. Can't get a buggy in a toilet cubicle - take it up with management NOT with someone who has a disability.

I perfectly understand - as I wrote in my message earlier - why dedicated disabled loos NOT used by others are necessary, Peachy.

But the 'why can't you wait' argument is madness. Women need to use the toilet much more than men for many reasons, and mothers with children fall into that group and are socially excluded because of it.

As someone else said bladder incontinence is much more common post-childbirth; many people have more than one child and need to take those children to the toilet quickly; older women suffer more continence problems also.

It doesn't justify using disabled toilets. But it does explain why people do.

20 mins to change a baby??!

I use disabled toilets when out with the DDs on my own, theres no way I would leave a 4yo, 3yo and a baby outside a toilet whilst I went in.

What about DHs/DPs? If DP is out with one of the DDs by himself he uses the disabled toilets as well and takes them in with him, he cannot take them into the gents with him and they are too young to be left alone.

I wheel the buggy in then we can all go to the toilet together and it's a lot easier that trying to get us all into cubicles. Some cubicles are so tiny you cannot get yourself and a child in and shut the door. And also some toilets are so small you cannot even fit a pram in them.

We actually plan our journeys around toilets so we know where the "best" ones are, i.e. John Lewis baby changing room.

yes women do neec the toilets sometimes but in that case i'd class that as emergency usage which I alrady said I find OK

but its the constant oh i'd buy a radar ket attitude that takes the benefit of the doubt away isn't it? The me first attitude so prevalent in society that you get used to thinking that there no emergency just a selfish person.

V. v. v. good post eidsvold.

I bet! I don't know how many times I have gone to the local shopping centre on the weekend, and you wait and wait and wait to use the (separate) baby change facilities and after what seems like hours two love-struck parents come out with a brand new baby.

How long does it take, why are both parents needed!

Sweetlitty you plan your trips so again in the offchance you were cught that's be different to buying a aradar key as a sense of me too, surely?

As a mum of only boys not best placed to answer anout dp's and dd's. Its certainly an argument for better shop loo planning certainly.

(btw I bolded the I in the last post as I know there are a lot of Sn posters of a far harder line than me so being very careful not to be taken as speaking for them)

have you noticed that everyone who is disabled or has a disabled child, disagrees with the OP and people who have no disabilities or no disabled children mostly agree?? Maybe you would like my son and my daughter's Cerebral palsy for the day and see how easy it is then!! I have a baby too, and would NOT use the disabled toliets, as I said lower down, I wheel the buggy to the door of the far end toliet and leave the door ajar...

I think some mums use baby change for feeding. Not me but not uncommon either so that might explain 20 minutes?

I think life is very difficult for toddler/baby mums as far as toileting goes etc....in a few years your child will be independant of changing etc...I've had nearly 20 years of changing my daughter etc...All I'm asking is to be cut a little slack by other inconsiderate parents...is that too much to ask? .

But that isn't the 'constant' attitude, it's just the one people have jumped on because it's fun having a rant, isn't it? It's the one some people actually prefer to hear about because a self-righteous rant is more fun than an actual discussion of a general lack of facilities affecting all sorts of people - disabled, parents, elderly etc.

I would go a long way to avoid having to use a disabled toilet - including obvious things like hanging on, taking kids in if at all possible, finding end cubicle and leaving door open, getting help - you name it! But if I'd exhausted all of those I would use a disabled toilet rather than leave an infant or toddler outside if i felt it was unsafe.

Just out of interest, those of you with disabled children but no urgency issue - do you try to avoid using disabled toilets (say by hanging on till you get home) in case someone with an urgency issue comes along while you're in there? Because someone might. That child whose had an accident and is in distress through having to wait could perhaps have done so because you were selfishly using a toilet when, strictly speaking, you could have hung on if you'd really really tried. Or is making an effort to keep facilities empty at all times in case someone with a very urgent need comes along something only nondisabled people have a moral duty to do?

whose -> who's

DP was a single father to his dd (my dsd) for approx a year or so. During that time he had no other option than to use the disabled loos because as a bloke there was simply no provision for appropriate changing and toilet facilities for single fathers.

He hated it. He used to apologise to anyone walking past when he had to use a disabled loo out of sheer embarassment. He was well aware that a disability is not always visible and that incontinence can be a part of a disability. (family member was severely disabled)

He complained to the local shopping centre and was told it wasn't cost effective to provide decent family facilities.

Read my earlier post

why not leave your child in the pram outside a normal loo?

My Ds1 has Cerebral palsy but is able to use normal toliets, we only use them if he is using the wheelchair. He is very embarrassed by his disabilitity and likes to be normal..

i asked that earlier wouldyou apparently the child could be raped and snatched away by loonies

i have an idea. go to the loo before you go out or find alternative larger loos

The point SweetKitty made - and I made earlier in this thread which hasnt been picked up on - re dads using toilets applies irrespective of the sex of the child. Its not just that dads might feel uncomfortable taking young DDs into toilets..what about babies? Are you all saying that you would be happy for your DHs/DPs to take the buggy/pram into the mens toilets and park it alongside the urinals whilst he used them? Or is it that no-one can conceive of a dad taking a baby in a pram out on his own?

Surely the point is that most people on here who do use the disabled toilets are doing so because those facilities are designated for their use, AS WELL AS for use by the disabled? Are they wrong for doing so, if thats what the signs say? Or should we just ignore the signs for fear of possibly offending someone who may not even be waiting to use the facilities at that time anyway?

Personally to date I have never had to use a disabled toilet other than in a situation where the only toilet there is also the disabled toilet. But one day I might have to, if there's no alternative, and if anyone glares at me for it, that's their problem - my conscience will be clear. There aren't enough good toilets with space, that should be obvious to anyone, and getting angry at the other people who also don't have enough space doesn't help anyone. (Talk about pulling up the ladder behind you!)

I must admit I have used the furthest cubicle and left the door open. Though I'm not sure what I'm going to do when the new baby arrives as I will have ds 1 5, ds 2, 20 months (not walking at present) and a newborn. Some toilets are accessible but many have double doors that I find impossible to negotiate with a pushchair let alone a double buggy. My local sainsburies loo I can't even get a buggy in as it's so small.

I do find it facsinating that shops can take our money yet provide us all with crap, dirty, small facilities. Think how much profit the supermarkets are still making!!!

I think I'll stay at home!

I asked you then South if you wanted to take the risk with your kids? You might but I won't. Is that okay with you?