to expect to use a disabled toilet when I'm out with the pram?

[CT123]

I can't use the ladies when I have my baby with me in the pram. The only thing I can do is wheel him into the disabled toilet with me. But the disabled toilets have special locks on them, which presumably disabled people have special keys for. I appreciate that they want to stop able-bodied people hogging disabled toilets but what else can I do?

If you want bigger loos - do something about it. Bloody hell start a campaign for parent rooms where dads can take little ones to the toilet without having to take them into the mens or whatever, where you can sit and feed in comfort if you so desire, where you can have toilets big enough for your trolley or pram. Where you have baby change facilities that are not incorporated into a disabled toilet. Don't be a lazy arse and use a disabled toilet. Simple as.

Use your collective voice and make a change - why accept the status quo - if your needs are not being met - bloody do something about it instead of whining about it. If some companies/places can meet needs appropriately - big them up - if not - walk with your feet - tell them why you choose to shop elsewhere. Why does it have to be so?

oh fgs calm down, just got to another loo, there really is no need to use a toilet desiganted for the disabled ONLY.

Still no answer. You didn't read properly when I said I had no need to use a disabled toilet at my town has decent facilites for all.

Sometimes there aren't alternative larger loos. I said this yonks ago (and it has been repeated lots of times since) but a lot of people don't appear to have heard. Why don't we all campaign for better facilities? This horrible fighting is really unpleasant. I think we are all agreed that sending off for a radar key when you don't have a disability is beyond the pale but equally I do understand that it is difficult with small children and an open door. I lock my DS in the toilet with me. If I had a baby outside in a pushchair, I would not be able to leave the door open because my DS would run off. Some toddlers do

I've already said its not something I have to worry about generally but

I'm intrigued again.
Those with disabled children (for arguments sake ina wheelchair) what do you do when you (the carer) need a wee but your child doesnt?

no unfortunately i haven't read the whole repetive boring thread. it's been done to death

but agree with eidsvold

if that westfield centre that someone else mentioned earlier is like ours with the cubicles and comfy chairs if you want to feed in peace, with microwave if you want to reheat, a number of baby change stations, play area for siblings, tv, comfy lounge, toilet with large and small toilets - parent's room. WHy not petition other places to have it? They have clearly shown that they can do it and people no doubt would use that shopping centre because of it!

i agree spicemonster...

Ah right - a goalpost shift - so now the fault lies not in using a disabled toilet in desperation, but rather in having not done enough campaigning so there isn't a better toilet there. But it's still all the fault of the nondisabled parent using the disabled toilet, because that's their role in this, isn't it? To be the ones in the wrong, regardless of how that may be argued.

I was usually OK to leave the buggy just outside. Miraculously quick loo stops! And I kept talking to DC all the time I was in there.

Although I guess that depends on where it was. In a dept store - no problems, outside public loos I'd be a bit uncomfortable leaving buggy outside. But on the odd occasions I did use the disabled loo I always bore in mind that I was breaking the rules and was even quicker than usual. I don't think it's OK to do this and wouldn't be surprised at getting funny looks TBH! Having babies isn't a disability.

It would help of course if buggies weresn't so huge. They don't need to be almost the same size as wheelchairs

I like the idea we should all run about trying to find alternative toilets which are more accessible....there was a lot of publicity in the news a few months back saying that numbers of public toilets in the UK were at an all time low. Thousands have been closed in recent years. So its a bit much to assume every town has a plethora of toilets of all varieties lined up waiting for parents! In most small towns you have a shopping centre, one set of toilets and thats it.

bronze - although dd1 is not in a wheelchair - so a little different but if you look at my earlier post - dd1, dd2 in cubicle with me - playing sardines and dd3 in the buggy outside with door open. Dd1 was trapped in so she did not do a runner. If dd1 in a wheelchair - something as I did with buggy - put her near me as I went to end cubicle and leave door open.

Playdough, that is a ridiculous question, of course if a child/young adult with disabilities does'nt need to go to the loo and [medically] can wait till they get home they do. I don't relish the thought of a]trying to find Disabled loo B] waiting till someone comes out C] doing a balancing act with an 8 stone adult. It's a performance of strengh and stamina that we could both do without. It leaves me exhausted and her DD frustrated....In NO WAY could you ever compare that task with one of getting a toddler into a cubicle or changing a small baby. Next week if you're in the Kent area I'll meet you in Bluewater with my daughter and you can see first hand just what I'm talking about! .

I've used a disabled loo when i've been on my own with Tom. The baby change at the Enoch centre in Glasgow has 2 loos in it I think, but you need to ask to go in.

Not read the whole of thread (read up to page 7)

While I understand that disabled toilets are there for a reason, Sometimes I will use them.

Sorry, but I will not leave a 17mo old and a 14week old on thier own.

Some toilets dont fit in a pushchair at all, nevermind fitting them in a cubical. It's ok saying, 'oh, it's very rare that a child gets snatched outside the toliet' Yeah, and I bet that what the mccanns used to say too.

I would never stopped a disabled person usuing the toilet but I wont risk anything happen to my children. If that makes them PFB then so be it.

Oh, and would never buy a radar key either.

I loved John Lewis in reading as it had a great toilet for families with a big/little loo and space to bring the buggy in. A private feeding area and loads of space to chnage the baby so mums and das can use the space.

The oracle shopping centre had a room that was similar so no need to use any disabled loos in reading town centre.

Playdough not ignoring your question just both of mine have urgency issues (ds1 as previoulsy stated, ds3 only just and unreliably trained into toilet usage at all and poor verbal skills to let us know). however becuase of the whole vis- non vis disbaility thing I feel like a tosser using disabled toilets anyway, and and fell very guilty which is perhaps stupid but as well as the attack mentioned before on ds1 there's often someone bashing teh door with a walking stick certain of their priority.

Hiow I would do it if I was designing ad not down to cash:

two toilets in every block with restricted access: one marked disabled witha radar key, one amrked priority only- no key. So disabled, buggies, dads with daughters, etc. I bet that rpiority one would be filled with other people who think they have got a right but hey ho, what can you do?

FWIW there is a flip side to this; people like my Mum who don't consider themselves disabled as they don't claim DLA (oh no dear we dont claim benefits they're for the really needy (parents really rather poor after pension collaps e and in reneted housing)- you know they type) but have a real need (Mum has severe urge incontinence and at time shas extremly restricted mobility- she will often need the oo 20 minutes in an hour) but won't use the facillities as they don't feel theya re entitled.

I was making a serious point about moral duty to try to wait even when it would be more convenient to use a diabled toilet straight away. I wasn't comparing your task of using the toilet with someone else's task of going to the toilet with a pushchair, and I wasn't asking about what people do when it's not convenient to use a disabled toilet. I was asking about what people do when it would be convenient to use the disabled toilet, but actually they could also wait till they got home, or go home early. Would you, in that situation, avoid using the disabled toilet purely on the basis that someone else might come along who needs it more urgently than you do? Do you feel you have a moral duty to avoid using limited facilities, if at all possible?

(that was to salsmum btw)

playdough sori comment [13 03]i was reffering to

you got it playdough - this argument has been going on for years and has anything changed no. Cause it is easier to be selfish and disrespectful than it is to try and make a difference.

I may be the mother of a child with sn BUT i actually have two other children who do not have special needs to actually I am more like you than you realise and surprisingly I am actually very active about lobbying to make things better for people not just people with sn.

Looking at the basic question posed.

YES you are being unreasonable to expect to use a disabled toilet when you are out with the pram. Not about popping in to the loo when that is the only one or that is the only one with a baby changing facility. The telling point is expect that I who has no disability can use a disabled toilet just because I have a pram with me.

blimey how long does it take some of you to have a wee? this is funny now, lol at the mccann reference dear god.

Is it not obvious though that the result of complaints re access to loos etc will almost inevitably result in shops & shopping centres & local councils simply 'rebadging' their exisiting disabled only toilets for use by the disabled and/or parents & babies/children?

It's a lot cheaper to put up a new set of signs than completely rearrange existing toilet facilities.

Or to anyone else disabled who could 'officially' use the disabled toilet, but at that particular moment might not be desperate to do so - do you feel you have a responsibility to avoid using the toilet in case someone comes along who needs it more - the sort of sense of responsibility that you would like all nondisabled parents to feel (most do feel that anyway I think, but the point is despite that they are sometimes desperate).

AllI meant South, is that they probably thought nothing would happen as it 'very rarely happens' as someone said earlier a child getting snatched from outside a toilet 'very rarely happens' too.