to expect to use a disabled toilet when I'm out with the pram?

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I can't use the ladies when I have my baby with me in the pram. The only thing I can do is wheel him into the disabled toilet with me. But the disabled toilets have special locks on them, which presumably disabled people have special keys for. I appreciate that they want to stop able-bodied people hogging disabled toilets but what else can I do?

There are very few stories of babies being snatched in this way. it's incredibly rare.

People are really bothered about the pram and their possessions, you can always take the actual baby in the cubicle.

No i do this all the time if a suitable toilet is not provided, if it is I wait. Not so much now I gues that DS is 3

I'm afraid I've done it where it is really unavoidable - if I really really need to wee and I do take ds2 in with me in the pram. 2shoes I would happily avoid it in Brighton if there were anywhere else, but there isn't (M&S and Churchill centre) - I can't leave ds2 alone or fit him in any cubicle with me. So I don't think it is unreasonable.

Having said that, I don't do it if there is a queue and I go very quick.

FM - the facility isnt always designated for the sole use of the disabled, see oldravers post - I've seen similar signs myself. And complaining is all very well (as I said in my previous post, clearly designated parents facilities are what is required, long term) but in the short term if you need the loo, you need the loo, and if the only one available is a disabled toilet, then that has to be the that is used.

They really should stop putting baby changing areas in disabled toilets. I can understand why it annoys those who need disabled toilets when parents use them, though I'm guilty of using them occasionally myself.

I don't have a child, but I have dyspraxia and my balance can be poor, particuarly when I'm disorientated, which happens almost every time when I'm in a busy town centre, store or shopping centre. I try to avoid these places but it isn't always possible.

If I'm feeling disorientated and dizzy and my balance has been affected, I have been known to use the disabled toilets because the guard rail is there for me to hold onto while getting to the toilet and while sitting there if I'm not feeling steady.

However I'd never dream of using a disabled space so I know I really shouldn't ever use the disabled toilet either.

I know a Mum who had to wee in the sink of the baby change because she didn't have a disabled key and couldn't find anyone to let her in.

I would have thought the disabled amongst us would be the most understanding of the problems faced when one is strapped into a seat on wheels and can't walk or easily get about therefore needs a carer to help them and making that carers life as easy as possible frees the carer up to care for person in said wheeled chair ie in exactly the situation of mother and baby.

Fattiemumma - why do you keep on about oversized prams? LO is 22 months, we have a McLaren buggy - hardly oversized - it doesn't fit into a cubicle - these days they are so damn small you're lucky to fit one adult in them!... I am not leaving her and her 3 year old sister alone outside while I have a wee, or her on her own while LO3 and I both have a wee.

Not once in all the time I have been using disabled toilets has a disabled person been inconveninced by me. There has never been anyone waiting. We go in, we do our business and we get out.

Why don't you complain to the management.

FWIW I have a godson (who I was a full time carer for) who was wheelchair bound and is still very unstable on his feet (brain injury in a car accident, disabled permit etc) so yes, I do have experience on both sides of this arguement. If he and I needed it and had to wait while a mum was in there with kids then we waited and smiled when they came out. We, as you put it, coped.

Carparking - it's not the same thing at all. You can fit the car into most spaces, you cannot fit an adult, a 3yo and toddler (with or without the buggy) into a normal toilet cubical. It's not a choice, it's a necessity.

Interestingly, our local disabled toilets are for disabled and mother and child toilets combined. It specifically states that they are designed for mums with pushchairs to use too. There are two of these toilets, and they are positioned just opposite the baby changing. There is also a seperate disabled toilet, locked with radar key in another part of the shopping centre, exclusively for disabled people and next to that is a mother and baby changing area with a toilet in it. This sort of thing is the way forward I reckon.

Notevenfunny - that's a good way of putting it!

2 SHOES I dont know what your problem is, we're not talking about disabled parking spaces that you need to have a badge for and you are not legally allowed to use. I wouldn't use a disabled parking space. My pram is not oversized either Fattie but still doesnt allow me access to a normal loo

If I cant get access to a normal loo and the disabled is locked then what am I supposed to do ?? Disabled Loos also double as baby changing facilities so what to do then ? One of the towns I use has only one set of public loos, male inaccesable female ones and a locked disabled/baby changing. Disabled loos ARE NOT for the sole use of disabled people and I think actually its rather mean of you to suggest so

While I have the puschair and facilities provided as they are then I will continue to use the Radar key.

If there is a baby changing unit in the 'disabled' loo, then it's obviously not just for disabled users, it's for other parents with prams too. I don't see the problem. It's not the same as parking spaces as those spaces don't have both a wheelchair emblem and a parent and child logo.
Sometimes there's a larger cubicle in the ladies' that accommodates prams, but not always, and I'm not sure there would be one in the mens'. Loos with wheelchair access are for people who can't use the other facilities, and people with babies in buggies often can't use the other facilities.

This exact topic is being discussed on the BBC Ouch board. Do we have any MN members there I wonder?

You get a discount (tax) on a RADAR key if you are disabled, I think that answers a lot of comments.

I find the sign at my local Tesco funny; it has a wheelchair, a baby change and a bottle on it

I?ve queued for the disabled toilets in a long line of disabled people, never had to wait for a parent and never held up another disabled person using the baby change facilities in a disabled toilet. I think the main reason that they are put in disabled toilets is that they used to be in the ladies leaving fathers stuck, it?s a lot easier than trying to add a new room to act as a baby change.

I have used the disabled toilet because of having the pram with me too - there is no chance of getting it into the normal ladies. But as many have said, the disabled loos have nearly all been multiple-use loos - and where there are separate baby-changing facilities, there often isn't a loo in there.

I haven't yet come across a disabled loo that needs a special key.

And no - I don't think it equates to using a disabled parking bay at all, which I wouldn't do. I have no issue with parking far from the shop doors but I do have an issue with not being able to go to the loo safely with my DS - I am not going to leave him outside the loos, I am not going to take him out of the pram and place him on the loo floor while I go to the loo. So far, it has never been a problem.

One Waitrose I go to, the ONLY customer loo is a disabled etc. loo for all customers.

Madam, where is this shopping centre town that you mention. it would be lovely to mention it to all local shopping centres and give them something to work on and maybe then they would be more common for everyone to have access to.

maybe, instead of all the moanies complaining about the fact that (heaven forbid) - mothers actually want to look after their children and make sure they are safe (who'd have thought it) and not leave them outside the toilet while relieving themselves, these said moanies, should make a complaint to the councils who make it a rule to provide these toilets and baby change areas to make ones specially for mums/dads to take care of everyones needs in one place.

i am disabled and also a mother of a very active 3 yr old boy. i find it incredibly difficult to use a normal toilet and i have one of thos ultra small buggies that fold down to the size of a large handbag. i cannot get this into the majority of normal toilets.

i carry a badge round with me to explain that i am disabled as it is not clear to see as i have a lot of underlying conditions (one being that i dont get more then a minutes notice of needing to use the loo) that are not visible to everyone. i could never give anyone a hard time for using the disabled toilet if they had a buggy as it must be exactly the same as a wheelchair. you still have to get it into the cubicle, and close the door behind it.

i get nasty looks when i come out of a disabled toilet whether it be for use by myself or my son and i am entitled to use it by all the moanies way of thinking, so i cant imagine what other mums get when they cant show a badge to all these complaining fogies. i am disabled, i have a legally owned radar key which i had to produce my documents to get, a parking badge and mobility car.

it would be much easier for everyone if parent and child toilets were available, but i cant see that happening any time soon.

i for one, will NOT be leaving my son outside in his buggy while i go to the toilet, and i would hold open the door for any mums with prams that i see are heading for the toilet so they didn't have to struggle.

yes, the design for the toilets were for disabled people, but then, they should also have similar size toilets for buggy mummies. until they do have them more readily available, i dont see the problem.

sorry to go on a bit. lol

If you find crap or non-existent baby facilities you should complain if you can be bothered but in a constructive way, suggesting what they should do to improve it, & say you are going to tell all your mothers' groups. I have done this & so far have had a restaurant install a baby change table & a shopping centre modify its toilets to make space for buggies. Mum power

I don't see any problem with parents with small children using loos that are designated family/disabled, and it probably is a sensible way to use the space so long as their are sufficient numbers. In the same way that parents with buggies have benefited from the new designs on busses to make them wheelchair accessible. However applying for a RADAR key is not on at all, that in my opinion is like obtaining a disabled sticker for a car under false pretenses, and I am amazed it is even possible. I really don't think it should be.

Unless there is a set up where the cubical opens directly onto a public area then why it should be considered dangerous to leave your child in their buggy or pram outside the loo cubical but in the ladies is beyond me. The likelihood of your baby being snatched is miniscule, if you are that paranoid go shopping with someone else to mind the baby or wear a sling. As a parent you have choices, you can leave the baby with someone else for example and not take them shopping at all, or go with a friend. If you are disabled then you have no choice, and if the loo is occupied when you need it it could have really embarrassing repercussions. Yes it probably won't on the whole, but the likelihood of someone with a disability needing to use the loo when a parent is in there is much much higher than the likelihood of someone stealing your baby in the minute or so it takes for you to have a pee.

I use the disabled facilites if with DS in a buggy as most round here have the changing station in them. I would never buy a key for one tho just as I would never apply for a badge or park in disabled space. (pisses me off tho when old people park in one of 3 M&T spaces when there are a good 50 disabled spaces available - seperate rant)

I personally find being nearly 9mths pg, with SPD and a toddler in a buggy quite 'disabling'. Am quite at whoever said that babies being snatched was quite rare!! Who would want to risk it??????!!!!

And I was just wondering, with everyone making such an issue about 'genuinely' disabled people having to wait for the toilet to become free. What do they do if there is another 'genuinely' disabled person in there already? Or does that not happen

thankfully we have toilets provided in parent rooms in shopping centres that have adult size and child sized toilets in a cubicle. We also have toilets that are stroller or shopping trolley friendly. We also have a toilet with a handrail in the women's toilets for people who may need that help but not need the space a wheelchair would need.

If I have dd1 who is disabled with me and she needs the toilet - she needs the toilet - she is unable to wait - he body doesn't do full bladder signals and so if she says I need the loo then she needs the loo. If we have to wait for someone who just needs to look after a buggy then I have to deal with the resulting meltdown from a child who has just wet or soiled herself cause they needed some space.

What is wrong with using the furtherest cubicle and leaving the door a little ajar. No problem - no one can see you, you can see the little one. No need to use disabled loos.

It is the attitude that stinks frankly. I want or supposedly need and so my need is greater than yours even though someone else has the disability.

Must make you right hard to glare at someone who admonishes you for doing something inappropriate. Lovely lesson you are teaching your children - their needs are greater than anyone elses.

If you think the facilities stink - make a noise - protest, complain - take issue with retailers do not take issue with people who genuinely need those rooms.

Retailers put baby change units in disabled toilets cause they do not value either group. Shopping centres around here have those parent rooms - wonderful comfy chairs for feeding, six or so change stations which are solid benches, microwaves for heating food and milk, fenced play area for other children, tv - see if you can feed and change in comfort then you are more likely to stay at the shops longer and spend more money.

rooms like

this

I have IBS; I often have to get to a loo right now for more than just a quick wee.

I am not disabled. I don't have a pram. I use the disabled toilets.

Sorry to all those righteous types who wouldn't dream of violating the sanctity of the disabled facilities. (And I would never use a blue sticker parking space before you start.) But the consequences of not doing so don't bear thinking about...

I think it sounds like the real problem here is that developers and retailers are ignoring prams totally in their planning. Maybe we should have some sort of campaign about that.

Eidsvold,

that is exactly what I do - pick the furtherest cubicle along, go into the cubicle, reverse the pram back.

Someone would have to try really hard to see anything, and I doubt anyone would honestly be too interested....

I am shocked that you can buy a radar key so cheaply.

So let me get this straight, it's okay to use the disabled toilet to change the baby and have a wee yourself(and therefore be in there for hours) but it's not okay if you want a quick wee and you don't need to change the baby? That doesn't make sense. It's all about signage isn't it? At my local sports centre, the disabled toilet (the only one) has a disabled, a baby changing and a pushchair picture on the door. It's no different to a disabled toilet which only has the first picture.

I think we need to campaign for more toilets that are parent accessible (there was a thread about baby changing facilities only being in ladies' loos on here the other day) rather than squabbling amongst ourselves.

Having said all that, I'd never get a radar key. I think that's wrong.