to expect to use a disabled toilet when I'm out with the pram?

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I can't use the ladies when I have my baby with me in the pram. The only thing I can do is wheel him into the disabled toilet with me. But the disabled toilets have special locks on them, which presumably disabled people have special keys for. I appreciate that they want to stop able-bodied people hogging disabled toilets but what else can I do?

Well said Ladyevenstar...

monkeygi:Just to be clear then. If we (and I mean the group to which some of you apparently do not belong, ie 'parents')....em forgive me for being dim but which group are you reffering to? I think you'll find that the people commenting on here about non-disabled people using disabled toilets are in fact...first and foremost PARENTS! .

Herbie, it infuriates me. Maybe because I grew up with my dad who was disabled I can understand how awful it is for them when they need to use the toilet and can't because someone is in there, often my dad would need to go at a moments notice and I or whoever was out with him would need to get him to the toilet. I was about 13 maybe 14 when this incident happened and I had to say what I did, it was embarrassing for me to have to go into the mens at this age but my dad was important and i would do anything for him. Sadly my dad died 5 years ago but i still get riled when people abuse facilities put in place for disabled people. I do have a big pram but i always find a way of using the toilet or if i can#t i wait until i can.

Disabilities are not contagious but ignorance is the worst disability ever!!!

People wittering on about newborns and how tricky it is. BUY A SLING. That way you can shop, you can wee, you can wash your hands, you can get on a bus, hail a cab, manouvre around badly planned shops. It is a miracle.

If there is no-one around whether disabled or not and the user is in there for two minutes? or you are the only customer in a cafe? or it is a distance from the lift to the toilet and you know it will take longer than the time you will take in the toilet for the lift to go down/up to get the disabled person who is needing to use the toilet that you are at the door of?

surely there is a case for there being times when a disabled person isn't going to be inconvenienced? and that as long as judgement is exercised by the toilet user.

I realise that not all disabilities are visible, but surely the main issue is with wheelchairs and the space needed to wheel them round. Can ambulant disabled people use a normal toilet? are they not inconveniencing a wheelchair user by dint of their use of a disabled toilet? (genuine questions by the way, not trying to be facetious)

I'll continue to use my judgement over this issue I'm afraid and if that makes me a selfish cow in the eyes of some people, then so be it. I know I'm not a selfish person generally and in the specific case of buggies in disabled toilets, just a hassled mum with a dodgy pelvic floor caused by a forceps delivery that exercises aren't helping with and a twin buggy that can't be manouevred into toilet cubicles and only two hands.

I'm with LackaDAISYcal here. I certainly think disabled people need toilets that suit their needs, but I think that that a mother with a pushchair is ok to use the disabled loo if there isn't anyone wanting to use it.

And anyway, most places seem to have the baby change in the disabled loo because it's the only place with space for it.

AN able bodied person who is disabled in some other way may be able ti use a normal toilet BUT what of that same able bodied looking person actually has a bowel/bladder problem? Then a bit more privacy than the average public toilet provides is needed.

Reading this and people here are saying I am 38+ weeks pregnant and need more room....errrrrrr did you chose to become pregnant? or was it forced upon you?

if it was a choice then find a way of dealing with the toilet situation aside from using a toilet which is provided for a disabled person who did not chose to be disabled. I know that spd can cause a lot of problems during pregnancy and this is an exception to the norm BUT those who just want more room............

This thread is like groundhog day

nightbynight: I totally agree just the same as if a disabled person is waiting outside that disabled toilet they have no idea how long non disabled person may take...it can take a while if you have wriggling baby to change or a toddler who cant poo cos 'mum's watching' to a disabled person with little bladder control this can seem like a lifetime.

I have to say that you are actually making me think and I shall think twice before using a disabled loo in future.

A parking space is not equivalent to a toilet. You can't equate the physical need to use a toilet with parking your car.

I think buying a radar key when you are not entitled is akin to buying a parking badge and totally abhorrent. Toilets that are locked with a radar thingy are clearly dedicated disabled toilets. I don't see the occasional/rare use of an non radar toilet in an emergency as being wrong at all - it's all about need. Having said that, if you're using them as a matter of course, you need to take a long hard look at yourself because that really isn't necessary.

Personally, I would never begrudge anyone who is in need. I'd begrudge anyone who is just lazy but if they really need it...? That's just mean. It's not a competition about who has it harder.

Actually, I've never answered the OP: Yes, you are being unreasonable to expect to use one.

It has been said many times though that not all disabilities that are considered by this thread to warrant use of the diasbled toilet are visible. So it could just happen that the mother/father in the disabled toilet with the buggy is one of those people. And they might inconvenince another disabled person by doing this purely legitimately.

the OP used the word expect, and I think we are all in agreement that it is unreasonable to "expect". Even those of us who have said we will continue to use the disabled loo (and in most cases it has been the cases that the facilities we are referring to also contain the changing table) have said that we are not trying to purposely inconvenience someone else, and would take an active decision to consider others first.

The thing with public toilets of all kinds (except the small boys toilets at school where they seem to enjoy all peeing down the one loo at the same time) is that they are public, and there will be times when there are more people in need of the facilities than actual facilities avavilable, so queueing is inevitable and it is not always going to be "a princess with a pram" who is in the queue in front of you.

herbietea- I know that. I'm not stupid.
Salsmum- I was referring to Riven's post - " disabled people had to spend years lobbying for toilets. Maybe parnets (sic) should stop using ours and lobby for their own?"- and 2shoes -"parents should lobby for their own stuff." The point I was trying to make is that I believe tolerance should be practised by all, regardless of circumstance. We are, indeed, ALL parents and yet there seems to be some kind of division. I agree that non-disabled parents should and need to campaign for better facilities and that we should also practise sensitivity and tolerance to others. Until such time as we live in a toilet utopia, however, I will stand firm on my view that occasionally it may be necessary for a non-disabled parent to use the disabled toilets and should not be villified for so doing, PARTICULARLY if they have made every effort not to inconvenience anyone.

Lackydaisyical - you need to read the whole thread if you think it's all about space for wheelchairs.

I'm not being "extreme" just explaining, but you said it was a genuine question.

Those of us with continence issues can often use normal loos. I certainly do most of the time. Here's your TMI alert if you are scared of poo.

WArNING - THIS POST DISCUSSES POO ON MY BODY. And it's quite long and I haven't previewed it ...

I have a colostomy. On a good day, when emptying my pouch, I merely get a few smears of poo on my hand while I do this and can manage to re-dress myself and wait until I get outside to wash my hands. Sometimes, however, the pouch which collects the poo bursts off and poo is smeared over my tummy. Sometimes it's just a little, sometimes it's lots. I need water to wash it off. Space also helps but water is essential. If the chips are down it can be done with a water bottle and a lot of wiggling around in a narrow cubicle but it's hard to do in a sanitary fashion, and it's very hard to do without getting poo on my clothes.

Of course, if I'm really unlucky - and this is very very rare as colostomies are pretty easy to manage these days - the bag can burst off getting poo on my clothes. Then I absolutely must have privacy to wash and dry my clothes.

An added complication is that I am having chemotherapy. This reduces the effectiveness of the immune system meaning I have to take extra care when dealing with poo. I'm under strict instructions from my nurses to make sure any bag changes or poo on tummy incidents don't compromise my Hickman line. We'll go on for ever if I explain what this is. But it does mean I must keep very clean. It's not optional. I spent three weeks in hospital lat year when it got infected and I don't want that to happen again.

My bowel issues are very much the easiest to deal with of those entitled to use disabled loos. My random bowel splurging is protected by my bag. It's nowhere near as bad as someone with Chron's or bad IBS. My life is actually quite easy to manage and barely affected by my "disability" at all. It's really only legally a disability rather than anything else. But even I do need access to disabled loos.

While I am an adult and can wait with poo running down my tummy, however unpleasant it may be, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that it is easier for a baby to wait to have its nappy changed, or have it changed by its parents on a mat on the floor.

ThingOne, that certainly is a lot to deal with and I wish you all the best. DO you have kids as well?

Thing one, thank you for your post. I hope it gives people something to think about.

My daughter is disabled but not a wheelchair user and unless I know she can't hang on or there are lots of stairs, I always try to use the ladies for just this kind of reason.

I had severe IBS a when I was younger and went through spells of being terrified to leave the house because when I needed to go, I had only a couple of minutes to find a loo. I've had a few accidents and they are horrifically embarrassing and humiliating.

Through an IBS support group, I acquired a radar key and a list of the locations of all UK disabled loos. I also had a membership card the explained the urgency that I could show to people if I had to (as has been the case sometimes) knock on doors or go into shops and beg to use their private loos.

So, no I wasn't disabled at the time but I had a real and urgent need to have swift access to toilet facilities, so I used disabled loos. Only once in around 4 years of this did I ever find anyone waiting when I came out and that person was so incredibly vile to me (as an anxious teenager) that I shall never forget it. Just remember that you don't have to LOOK disabled to need to use those facilities.

well, I've just come back from shopping and when I needed the loo, although dd is disabled so I could probably have blagged it and used the disabled loo; I didn't. I manoeuvred the pushchair through varying sets of heavy doors, parked the pushchair outside the cubicle (at the end so in no-one's way) and went to the loo. It was not rocket science - as I've said before, the whole thing took about 30 seconds and I still maintain that you are being utterly precious if you won't leave your pushchair outside the cubicle for 30 seconds.

Haven't read whole thread but wondered what the thoughts were on multiples? I have only ever used disabled loos when they have the changing facilities in them (def clouds the issue and yet it seems that this is often the case). I frequently can't get my double pushchair into the loos - including baby changing in some places (my local ASDA for example - once got stuck!) I'm just not prepared to leave a baby outside anywhere and I can't carry them both at once (not for long anyway and not safely and then where would I put the other one?) If I'm out with the car I often go back there and change them. I'm not really sure what I'm adding to the debate here as I'm actually not sure where I stand on the issue (i.e. can see the principle of disabled loos only for disabled people yet can appreciate the difficulties that parents can face and as I said there is also the fact that the disabled loo is often where the baby change is located). I would like to point out that it's not always about laziness and convenience however- I just don't think that's fair. I am NOT for one minute suggesting my DTs are akin to a disability but def agree that facilities for everyone could be improved. In fact since pushing a double pushchair around I have started to imagine how difficult it must be just to get along a pavement in a wheelchair what with all the cars parked there , get through doors, walk down the aisle of a shop without bumping into displays stuck right in the middle of an aisle etc. Prior to this I naively imagined that we had a fairly accessible society. I am sad to see this become a debate about 'parents' Vs 'the disabled'....