to expect to use a disabled toilet when I'm out with the pram?

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I can't use the ladies when I have my baby with me in the pram. The only thing I can do is wheel him into the disabled toilet with me. But the disabled toilets have special locks on them, which presumably disabled people have special keys for. I appreciate that they want to stop able-bodied people hogging disabled toilets but what else can I do?

I have a phil and teds, and it won't fit into a lot of toilets (like the one I referred to earlier). And I have in the past taken both babies out and taken them in with me, lying dd2 (pre walking) on the floor, and letting dd1 pull all the toilet roll off.

However if they/or one of them is sleep, i would be loathe to wake them up so that i can go and use the toilet, if there is a disabled toilet free.

As I said before, in most places if you ask for a toilet which will take a buggy, they show you to the disabled toilet.

Just because some mums can change babies on their lap whilst weeing and holding onto another toddler, doesn't mean that we all can (tbh I struggle to change dd2 on a changing mat!)

If they are the only changing facilities and the room is clearly marked for dual use that is different. But if there are alternative facilities elsewhere then the fact that the disabled toilet has a changing station isn't necessarily an invitation for any parent to use it. Probably I am being nit-picky here, I'm just annoyed by the assumption that anyone who has need of a disabled toilet must be someone incapable of having a life and family like everyone else ("I really don't see a problem disabled toilets shouldn't have changing facilies if they didn't want women with babies/buggies to use them").

Ok so I havn't read the last few posts so i want to pose a question

What the hell am I to do if the only toilet I can use is locked ??. As I said before my local town has only one locked loo. Another town I visit has an inaccesable toilet (two doors to go through at right angles so you cant even get into the toilet block with a pushchair, let alone go to the furthest one and prop the door open. I would be quite happy to do this IF I could physically get my puschair into the toilet. So my only alternative is the locked disabled toilet which also houses the babychanging.

This is not about people thinking they have the 'right' anD being selfish,or not having respect its about there not being an altenative. We dont all have Westfields on our doorstep... Derby is my folks town and yes the facilities are superb Its for this reason I bought a Radar key (which I didnt know you could buy till I saw it mentioned on MN).

I too, like a few others have mentioned have IBS... and I too like not having soiled pants thank you

Oh this is HILARIOUS. When did we get so weedy and pathetic? Who ARE all these pathetic mothers who cannot use a little ingenuity and experience a little discomfort so as to not inconvenience anyone with a greater need? Where are your morals fgs?

I had 3 children abroad in a country with no baby change facilities, disabled loos, p&t spaces etc etc. I COPED. YOU'D COPE.

Really, the 'I coped; you'd cope' attitude is offensive.

If people believed this en masse, we'd never make any improvements to our civil society, including those for disabled people.

So please give it up.

Well I find the "I've got a massive pram and won't inconvenience myself one iota" stance equally offensive. So there we are.

I brought my children up in a village with no running water and with only woven nettles to keep ourselves warm. I don't understand what your problem is

Yawn

Look, my point was only to say that it's possible. Yes, it would be fantastic if there were wide cubicles in every shop in every town but there aren't, so you adapt accordingly. But to me, taking facilties away from people who have no choice (as explained very eloquently on this thread) is downright cruel and immoral. IMO.

I'm not tearing anyone to shreds. I don't think it was shit for me so it should be shit for others, nor am I a martyr. I just get on with things without feeling hard done by. My DS1 is only five so I haven't had to suffer years of rubbish loos. My town, like many, now has few public loos. And I fully agree we should have more and better facilities for all. In fact, I have campaigned for that myself several times in the past and no doubt will again.

I do find it surprising that women can't dress themselves while holding on to a baby. It's really not that hard to do.

And it's not offensive to say use your imagination and learn how to cope. If you think your town needs better facilities, campaign for them, but please don't pretend it's not possible to pee with a baby and a toddler in tow. There are enough people on here who have managed it to know that it simply is not true. It can be a pain, as can many things with a baby and toddler, but it's not impossible.

As for changing nappies, well, it's great to have a changing table and I always preferred it when I did, but it's not essential for changing a nappy. My little wrigglers were always too keen to try to hop off ...

Oldraver. If you have IBS why don't you get a radar key? Surely you are entitled to one?

Why is it wrong to have a large pram? We all have choices, and I can hardly say that I chose my pram according to whether I could get it in a regular toilet cubicle or not?

The whole point is that there are no disabled people with no choice queuing before the disabled toilet as a mum with a pram zips in for a quick pee.

Whatever shrug I just think we do ourselves no favours by saying 'oh I managed okay with x crap'. Why should any of us have to hold our babies on our laps while we piss? Really? And I tried today to undo my jeans and pull them down with one hand and I can't very easily. And I would certainly piss myself if I really needed a wee. So according to some of the people here, that entitles me to use the disabled toilet.

Spice - I wet myself just today. Luckily I was at home. A combination of too much in for too long and an ill-timed sneeze was enough. So I can see where you're coming from. 2 babies have really done it for me

Bet you all really wanted to know that!

I agree ThingOne.

They are disabled loos because the clue's in the title. And that's it really.

Thing One...I do have a Radar key as I bought one for that and the reason I previously stated ( think I'm the selfish one lol). Not sure if that entitles me lol.

Would anyone care to answer my question about leaving the disabled toilets to go use a regular cubicle for yourself after changing your baby? Just curious if people feel so strongly about the whole toilet isue they would go to such great lengths to comply with their morals.

OK, can everyone whose Mum or Grandma is still alive and over 60 please ask them what they used to do when they were out and about and needed the loo? Not in a "woven nettles" kind of way, but it would be interesting to see what they used to do (and a lot of them would have had enormous prams. I just think using the facilities of the most vulnerable people in our society cannot possibly be the right answer for any right-thinking person - there has to be another way.

Look, isn't the real issue here a combination of shocking provision by local authorities and commercial organisations of fully inclusive toilet facilities?

If we were a truly inclusive society, councils would provide, and the law would require for commercial settings, at least one parent and baby/toddler toilet (as the ones in John Lewis or IKEA), separate feeding area and, perhaps most lacking, proper large and well-equipped toilets that cater for a range of different impairments, from people with incontinence and relatively minor mobility issues, right through to people with multiple impairments needing lifting equipment?

I do hope people will not use disabled toilets when they really don't need to; and will worry less about themselves and more about the people who can't leave the house because there's nowhere at all for them to change or be dignified in their toileting.

But I still don't think beating up parents for arguing it is difficult (no more, no less) sometimes with kids in tow in public places is at all helpful.

Well there was no way i was gonna put my child on the floor while i had a wee when my kids were little.

Sorry but public toilets are all about a splash and dash for me, so those precious 30 seconds with me nipping into an empty disabled toilet or waking a sleeping baby and putting her on the floor was a no brainer.

I reckon we would have been left outside sinkingfast. There wasn't this fixation with a paedo on every corner then.

I certainly left mine outside the cubicle (when they were both babies).

What do they do in Scandinavia? I bet they've got fantastic facilities for everyone.

you probably stand up and they wipe your arse for you

sinkingfast you don't even have to back that far, as I have said before, I never used a disabled loo with ds and he is 17. I am sure I am not alone.

Let's dig up some fossils and ask prehistoric lady cavemen how they managed without prams and toilets