Babies in upmarket restaurant

[Rocky12]

I have upset my SIL who went on holiday recently somewhere really expensive and wanted to take her 10 month old baby into the hotel restaurant that didnt allow kids under the age of 12. She said that she was asleep and wouldnt disturb anyone but I pointed out that she could wake up and start crying and what would happen if they were half way through their dinner. I felt that the hotel policy was right and there does need to be child free places. Not everyone wants to be surrounded by other people's children asleep or not.

Am I being unreasonable? She has gone off in a huff now.....

Oh it def not just a UK thing. It was very frowned upon taking children into restaurants later on in the day when we were in prague. TBH children anywhere seemed to eb quite disliked, regardless of their ebhaviour!

And the other ting I don't get is blanket bans: I understand a 2 / 3 / 4 year old might get shrieky etc but 9 / 10 year olds as a rule will not.

'kids' just covrs such a wide range doesn't it? I wouldn't take ds4 in a posh place atm but I might like to take foodie ds1.

So tell me- if I take ds3 when he's 21 still sn and still shrieks and eats off his knife etc will you all hate me I wonder? Will poeple have deserved a nice night out without the noise of that also?I bet many will think so, they just won't say it. (just random musings)

We went to Quaglino's for PIL 40th wedding anniversary. DS1 was about 1.
It was the fanciest place I've ever eaten and I was really worried he'd not be welcome or would misbehave (even though he's normally very good).
The staff were fantastic and bent over backwards to accomodate him. We were thankful to be seated a little way away from other diners, but DS was very good.
The waiting staff even took him and DH on a tour of the kitchen!

We've always taken the children to restaurants - pizza to Michelin-starred - and they have always behaved. And if they hadn't, we would have left the restaurant.

So a two year old is expected to stay seated and is well mannered and quiet. I have pulled the short straw with my two children.

Their part time job is to make inappropriate comments about the food, waiters and people at the next table. Yes, they are learning but why in a fancy place.

I have had dinners out spoilt by grown adults mkigng too much noise arouns me far more often than I have by a child

Spot on. Talking on mobiles is my pet hate, why do people think their lives are of any interest to every other diner ?

"But why shouldn't children be allowed in nice fancy restaurants - if they are quiet, well behaved, well mannered and stay seated? Why should they not be allowed to enjoy the food in such places?"

no ones saing that they shouldn't be allowed to enjoy any nice restaurant. the point is that there is nothing wrong with adults wanting to enjoy a child-free venue and certain restaurants deciding upon a policy and once they do it should be respected.
as i said earlier my parents brought me to nice expensive restaurants when i was younger, but they did so where it was in line with restaurant policy. e.g. early or lunch sittings. they did not deliberately flaunt a restaurants policy because it didn't suit them. they respected restaurants rights to implement such a policy and respected the wishes of other adults to enjoy a meal in a child free atmosphere. if a restaurant is happy to accept children then other patrons have nothing to complain about because they have not been promised a child free atmosphere and they know what to expect. but deliberately taking a child to a child free restaurant is arrogant,selfish and rude as it implies that your wishes are more important than other peoples.

Oh I wouldn't take my child to a child-free restaurant, no. Why would I take me child somewhere she wasn't welcome by the owners?

But I do think more restaurants should be open to having children around, at least up until early evening sittings.

Fortunately we ahve never really experienced any problems and very few places here seem to have such rules.

I don't like "child free" restaurants. I like children.

I think that it is quite reasonable for hotels to have their own policy. We don't eat out in the evening very often but if it is an adult occasion you want it to be special. A lot of children are badly behaved and allowed to get down and run around. If you know that your DC won't sit still it is much better to go to a child friendly one in the first place.

"ortunately we ahve never really experienced any problems and very few places here seem to have such rules"
and that's half the point.there are such few places that do have such rules, and those that do will normally have them at times which frankly aren't suitable for toddlers/young children, but a baby knows no different, that it is not exactly handcuffing parents or forcing them to stay in. so it really makes it look like parents who do bring a baby or young kid to these places are going out of their way to be difficult.

"I don't like "child free" restaurants. I like children"

and that's brilliant, and i'd defend your right to enjoy family/child friendly restaurants to the hilt.some people don't like kids,etto. i think people who tut at kids in coffee shops/cafes during the day are grumpy idiots just looking for something to complain about because what else do they expect during the day.
however you won't find the people who are petitioning to have some adult friendly venues going one further and insisting that all restaurants ban childrne so they can enjoy their meal in peace. quite the opposite, they want these family friendly places so that the people who want kids out for a meal have somwhere to go and want somewhere that people who don't can go.
but how come the opposite isn't true?why do some insist that all venues should be child friendly?why not have different places catering for different needs and then everyone has somewhere to go?

We have children and my DH and I rarely get the opportunity to go out on our own. When we do we always seem to get the table adjacent to rocky12's SIL who is obviously so incredibly self-centred to think that we wouldn't take issue on our rare night out (in a supposed child-free restaurant)to have our table cramped to make room for a sodding pushchair/car seat.

YANBU in the least

It is all a question of timing. If you eat out early you expect families but if you eat out later then you expect it to be adult only.
The problem is that if there are badly behaved children you are not able to say anything to them!
There are a lot of people who take their children out for a meal and don't include them in the conversation.

This whole argument is daft.

The point is not about whether children should be in restaurants or not.... blah, blah...

The point is that this particular restaurant was a child-free one. So therefore you don't take a child.

The world is littered with all sorts of different establishments that are there to cater to different tastes.

You don't want to see naked people when you're eating your dinner? You don't go to a naturist resort.

You don't want loud blasting music whilst eating your dinner? You don't go to a busy pub.

You don't want the noise of babies or small children whilst eating your dinner? You are grateful for the very few restaurants available that cater for this corner of the market.

Why would anyone insist on breaking the established rules of any premises?

MrsandMrs Twit,

You are 100% correct, however there are some on this thread that would have an issue with a restaurant that has a 'no child policy' and would try and make a point. Sorrento with her beautifully behaved children who from the age of zero sit and talk for hours on end and eat ambitious food without spitting it out and who never demand pizza and chicken nuggets.

Where can I get these children from.....

YANBU - as the restraunt clearly had a policy which she should have been aware of. Generally i think it's a bit shitty for people to complain about kids in restaurants, specially babies, but in this case it should have been clear to her before she attempted to go in.

Personally though I think the onus should be on the child 'haters' to ask a restaurant what their policy is RE children if they don't want to be surrounded by them.

Well Rocky I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you.

That is fine mayorquimby - so long as the so called child friednly places actually serve children real food and have a real restaurant feel to it as well, not just all soft play and nuggets and chips.

I don't agree either that children only learn by going to smart places. I think one incentive to children (not toddlers) to behave nicely, consistently (as taught at home) can be that only then will they be allowed to go to smart places. I think it is very sweet when you sit next to a family table and they are obviously celebrating a special occasion and there is an 8 year old looking quietly delighted and slightly overwhelmed by the sophistication.

Smaller children do dominate the spaces they are in. I can't think why Sorrento thinks that her children, even if cherubic and silent, aren't changing the atmosphere of the place by being in the push chair or car seat or whatever it was. Someone else will have had to simper and apologise to squeeze past it, when a smart restaurant will have been laid out so that all diners can reach their places frictionlessly otherwise. It will probably have been designed in that horrible clunking Lamazey super-jolly-comic-sans look that all toddler stuff seems to have (no matter how sophisticated it thinks it is) and the restaurant will have been designed by someone who has checked even the damask on the napkin. It isn't fair to take that experience away from the people who have chosen the place for those reasons.

In lots of European countries, people eat dinner at 10. Do 4 year olds really have it with them?

Anyway as I started by saying, children dominate the atmosphere when they are there and I like that atmosphere. But I think it is good for adults and children both to recognise that it is not always about children all the time - if for no other reason than to give children something to aspire to. I don't think you can expect people to develop fully socially responsible manners if you accord them all privileges whether they show responsibility or not.

Not everyone likes 'children' (and I am frankly a bit suspicious of people who claim to like all children to the extent that they won't go anywhere without any) even people who like their own children don't necessarily like your shrieking, smelly, rampaging monsters. (A generic 'your' there BTW, not implying any individual MNer's DC are shrieking, smelly etc). INsisting on taking your PFB to a childfree establishment and whining and stamping your feet a) if they quite reaonsably tell you to go elsewhere or b) if they let you in and other diners give you nasty looks or make remarks - or indeed you get asked to leave because your child is making a noise or being disruptive is just wanky. It's like going to a vegetatian restaurant and whining because they won't 'make an exception' and cook a steak for you.

'A generic 'your' there BTW, not implying any individual MNer's DC are shrieking, smelly etc'

No that's OK , pretty much sums up mine

x-posted
beanieb, this is not about child-hating! This is the kind of conflation that makes a nonsense of the issue.

It is precisely because children are allowed - encouraged - to be themselves (if encouraged to be the better versions of themselves) in this day and age (and rightly so) that places where children are, are different from places where children are not. And places where children are are often very nice.

I am not a 'child hater'-I would be perfectly happy having them anywhere if I knew that the parents were going to look after them, amuse them and stop them from annoying other diners.