in thinking that if it's generally accepted that the family is usually the best place to raise children....

[gabygirl]

...... (except in cases where there is serious abuse and neglect) when it comes to the care system, why so many people seem to abandon this principle when it comes to the issue of boarding school?

I haven't been able to stop thinking about this issue all morning. Last night I sat up until midnight watching that documentary on channel 4 about the boys who were abused at Caldicott. It stirred up so many sad feelings in me and made me cry. I felt so sorry for those men.

I went to boarding school myself at the age of 11 and although I wasn't sexually abused, I was so starved of intimacy and affection in my relationships for the next 5 years that it really affected my sexuality when I finally became sexually active at 15.

Did anyone else see it? The other thing that was sad about the film was the men's desperation to protect their parents against the knowledge that they'd exposed them to abuse, and in one case turned a blind eye to it even after they knew it had happened.

I still can't understand why people want to send their children to boarding school,even after reading this thread, exceptions for children in remote communities, forces children etc.

So when do you think that children are ready to live (partially) apart from their parents?

Don't you think it depends on the individual child...?

Quite agree Falcon, he was an arse.

SB I disagree about children not having a voice; my ds has one, and makes sure we know what he thinks. I don't think you could term him unassertive at all.

Why are you so intent on saying that every child that boards is emotionally damaged anyway? My dh, db et al as previously cited, are not damaged at all, and I fail to see why you keep hammering this.

Yes, if ds goes to board, I'll miss him, and I expect he'll miss us for a while until he gets involved in everything that's going on. He'll also see me at least every three weeks, if not more, and we will be in contact every day.

Not seeing your partner for six weeks, and then only for a brief time, and sustaining this over a long period of time is wearing. You can't talk to your dcs about money worries, or what to do about the car, or oh shit, the boiler's burst, or the lights have fused, or the myriad of other things that go wrong because you don't want them to worry. You have to deal with that on your own, and if you know that you have to weekend or six week or cope with sea time for perhaps up to four years; it does get a bit much at times.

Debz - you were in Gib at the same time as my parents then. My Dad was the Base Supply Officer at Rooke.

I don't think anyone on here is advocating sending their dcs away at 5. Mine will be almost 14 if he goes in September next year which I think is about the right time for him.

So what about the child who can't cuddle up to mum or dad each day, and tell them about the myriad of other worries they may have? They have to deal with all that alone.

Why are you so intent on saying that there will not be any emotional consequences at all, when you say there are for couples? Why are you hammering that?

Because there may not be any emotional consequences fgs. Dh tells me that there weren't any for him and he boarded from 9 - he asked to go as he felt he was missing out as a day boy from the activities that the boarders did. His home was down the road from the school, so he saw his folks regularly.

Yes, some children will be homesick for about a month, and no, boarding doesn't suit all of them, no-one ever said it did; but, for some families, it is an option they take, and I have explained to you ad nauseam and infinitum in terms as simply as I can, why they send their dcs to board.

The children are not going to Dotheboys Hall where they are abandoned all alone, but to boarding houses staffed by professional, caring adults who will give the kids a hug and encourage them to tell them about their worries. They are not alone, and to state otherwise is to be specious in the extreme and to have ignored all the evidence on this thread to that effect .

About the independence argument- when I did a brief spell at boarding school (and a very good one it was too), the one thing that struck me was that those young 15 and 16-year olds were so well guarded that it was very difficult to develop any independence. They were only allowed out on 3 afternoons a week, had to go with a friend, sign out to say where they were going, and be back in time for tea.

It was all very safe and pleasant- but independent? How do you make that one out? They seemed well looked after to me, but very very young compared to my peers at the local comprehensive.

They were never involved in any household decisions, never had to plan or prepare a meal or do the family shopping, never had to take responsibility for anything other than keeping their drawers tidy.

Couldn't fault it from the caring point of view- but at 16 even I, who was an unusually quiet teenager, couldn't bear the lack of independence.

May I take it that things have changed?

Sorry, but had to respond to this

"Spending long periods away from your DH/DW/DP is abnormal and will only distance you unhealthily from your partner, therefore potentially jeopardising your relationship.

You really cannot compare separation of couples and separation of teenage children from parents."

I am a naval wife, and have been spending long periods away from my DH since we met- it IS "normal" to us!! I don't feel we have an unhealthy relationship- far from it! I think we are both very independant people who complement each other well. Of course I miss him when he is away, but such is life- it was my choice- choose DH, who I knew to be in the RN, or look for someone who could stay home with me. He has lived in Portsmouth for years at a time, getting up at weekends and when he can, while I have stayed in Scotland- it has never made us feel less of a couple, or jeopardised our relationship, afaik.

On the other hand, DH joined up at 16. His decision, but his mum didn't question it, and he now says he would NEVER let any of our kids join up and leave home at 16, and he does resent his mum a bit for letting him do it so easily. They are really not very close at all, although she is perfectly nice. I think teenagers need their parents more than many of us think, and far more than teenagers themselves would like to admit. I left home at 17 to go to Uni, but it was a very different scenario, and I came home every weekend, got my washing done, and still felt very much part of the family. Over the next 5 years I learnt to be more independant, but was always fairly self-sufficient anyway. However I have friends and cousins who still live happily at home aged 30+- why the overriding need to foist independance on a child/ teenager at an age decided by the parent?

but you saying your DH was fine is like me saying Joe Bloggs was damaged.

Pointless debate - in general terms it is my view that children, as stated by the OP, do best at home and boarding does not provide for their development so well as a family unit. I do not accept that it's ok for children to be seperated from parents but not ok for couples to be seperated. I believe the results are just not shown in the same way.

I accept fully that you have another opinion

Jesus, if ds is still living at home at 30+ I will be tearing my hair out!

scaryteacher- I do concede 30+ is quite extreme . I must admit, I personally would be "encouraging" them out at that stage!

I'd have started encouraging it about 6 years before that! He wants to be an author, and seems to think that we will be providing financial support for this and a roof over his head etc. I have pointed out that a job and then writing as a hobby is greatly to be desired and will keep him fed!!

I think many possters have very rose tinted glasses about how wonderful it is at home in your nuclear family.

I never had understanding from my parents or emotional support. I learnt to guard my feelings around the age of 7 I never told my parents anything.

Yes being at home with your parents is a wonderful thing for every child you get all this love, support & understanding. Sorry not IME at all.

sleighgirl, i am not sure what your post (very sad x)has to add to the argument? perhaps you could explain

ss sleighgirl sometime life is,nt fair in all walks of life
the good thing of your life is having a bad experiance like you have had i,m sure it will make you into a fantastic mum and i,m sure you will love your kids the way you wanted to be loved i wish you well ! my glass,es are not rose
tinted btw they are clear lol

Obviously soime people will risk the emotional damage and others won't. I know heaps of people who boarded and I can often tell just by talking to them - there's a reserve there, there's an internal damage, a keeping distance because they were made to be apart from the people they loved. I don't like it when I see it. I know that some people don't see that as damage and some don't even admit it affected them like that but I've seen it too often to believe it's not there.

One reason boarding numbers are down and day fee paying places are up is because most parents recognise this. Your home in a sense ceases to be yours too as you're not there so very much. Even weekly boarding which is the option many parents go for isn't quite what you might think. Often the chidlren have to be at school at weekends so the parent seeing them is standing watching them play a match and then having some sort of fake happy families weekend tea when the child is observe by peers and staff and can hardly have time to talk or relax. It's all about activities not just being together doing nothing. It's all fake and put on and not very nice.

Boarding fees are down Xenia, because they are more expensive than day fees!

How many of the parents who sent their children to boarding schools & ignored their unhappiness there would have really given them the love & support they needed at home? If they refused to recognise their dc were unhappy at boarding school would they have also ignored their unhappiness regardless? I think so.

My eldest boards (ultimately her choice), one of the hardest choices I've ever had to make. She does get homesick & openly admits it both at school and to me, however she always want to go back ("of course I do Mum I love it"). There is no way I could see my younger children being suitable for boarding school they are completely different personalities to my eldest. When she eventually was given a place at a local school she was adamant that she still wanted to go to boarding school "I've worked so hard to get in, I really want to go"

You can't imagine how hurtful it is to be told by a bunch of strangers who do not know my eldest nor the school she attends that I am emotionally damaging her when I spend my entire life trying to give her all the love and support I never had and I spend 50% of the year without her in my home missing her and worrying about her. What I've found is that she actually tells me far more of what she's been up to & how she is then she did before she went there - good & bad!

I think the most important gift I can give my child is choices and the freedom to be able to tell me how she feels and the opportunity for us to work together to see if we can solve problems together. Ultimately my dd knows without a shadow of a doubt she can leave boarding school if she wants their is no pressure from me at all for her to stay.

But clearly accordingly to 95% of the posters on the this thread I am a dreadful parent totally neglecting her needs and she would be best served having me as her only female role model and being crammed into a tiny house with no private space and being very very academically able and going to sunk school, and not doing after school acitivities because I can't afford them and can't get her to them.

(scarey teacerThe children are not going to Dotheboys Hall where they are abandoned all alone, but to boarding houses staffed by professional, caring adults who will give the kids a hug and encourage them to tell them about their worries. They are not alone, and to state otherwise is to be specious in the extreme and to have ignored all the evidence on this thread to that effect . ) come on really they are not mums and dads are they i would.nt want my daughter telling teachers thing that i feel i should know first !! plus i,m sure they don,t cuddle and listen to kids for free do they come on !!

actually they either

a) tend to go to matron first (on duty 24/7), houseparent next and then if they can be bothered phone you

b) they just phone you to offload and you're left thinking I hope that was just a rant. You get in touch with the houseparent and they confirm whether it was an offload/rant or if there is something going on that has been sorted out.

and not necessarily in that order.

Debz - you'd be surprised how many children do tell teachers things that parents feel they should know first...and yes, I am a teacher and I am also a mother. I was a parent before I trained as a teacher. The amount of kids who told me things when I taught at Kitto, Ridgeway and Coombe Dean that they hadn't told their parents amazed me.

The house parents in a boarding house will be just that - parents themselves, so they do know about having kids. And yes, frequently after school, when I wasn't being paid, I'd spend time talking or listening to kids who needed to offload or who had problems at home or school or with friends and try to sort something out for them, or give them coping strategies. So, it was for free, as it was on my time, and yes, if the child was really distressed I'd break all the rules and give them a hug.

Teachers are human beings first and foremost and we react to a child's distress the way most parents do.

SG, we're just expressing views. Many a mumsnet poster has told me I've irreparably damaged all 5 children by returning to work when the babies were 2 weeks old. People have different views on subjects. In general particularly younger children seem to be adversely affected in my view and that's affected by the separation. The fact there might be nice fields and good hobbies is not the same thing as whether emotionally they're okay inside. I never said above they all suffered but just that I've seen plenty that are and I don't like the extra influence peers has either but I suppose if the peers are good then that's not so bad but too many of them seem to smoke, drink etc and do things my children in their teens never did but might have done had they gone away.

Asd for small houses etc if women work and earn more they can buy big houses or move to areas which have good private day schools may be as an alternative to the separation from their child. It's all well and good to live in the back of beyond with lovely country views or on a council estate but it's not always best for children and their education.

scaryteacher
maybe for some thats fine but i,d be hurt i have alway been open and honest with my kids still am always will be supppose i,m lucky
are you in plymouth to !

I do work can't afford a bigger home and can't afford private local private education as it's not means tested. Besides I wouldn't want her to be the poor child amongst all the wealthy. I live next to one of the most expensives areas in the country!!!!

As for smoking/underage sex/drug taking well there were def 2 camps at my comp school - those who did and those who didn't. My choice! Mind you I bunked of school loads, school never found out so neither did my parents, mind you they never noticed the years of depression with constant suicidal thoughts.