to feel horribly jealous of my friend's perfect birth?

[coveredinsnot]

Ok, this might be a complete over reaction, but it was a strong enough reaction to stop me eating my lunch and get out for a bracing walk... Anything that stops me eating is usually serious

My friend had her baby yesterday, a water birth at hospital with only gas and air. While I am honestly, truly over the moon for her, I can't help but feel horribly, heartachingly, disgustingly jealous. I had longed for such a birth throughout my pregnancy, but ended up with a very traumatic experience in which neither my midwife nor partner really spoke to me for the majority of my labour, baby was posterior so labour was very painful and slow, I couldn't have an epidural and ended up having an emergency caesarean after over 20 hours of hard labour. After baby was born I didn't hold him for over 2 hours. It was horrible. I was drugged up for days afterwards and can't remember much about those early special days. I feel angry about my experience, but I'm even more angry that it's interfering with my ability to just feel complete happiness that a good friend hasn't had to go through such a trauma.

Is there something wrong with me, am I a cruel hearted bitch, or is this normal?

you are only human, i feel incredibly lucky to have had all my 3 with no trauma. I have happy memories of my time in hospital. it's luck of the draw , my sil had a horrid time with her first and had to have counselling before she was ready to go through it all again.The 2nd time she was like a different person.
They don't call it labour for nothing.Just try not to let your feelings overwhelm you.Good Luck

covered, it's really great that you have found a counsellor. FWIW the birth trauma association highly recommends cognitive behavior therapy for PN PTSD. That is the type of therapy that I went through and it really worked well for me.

I'm glad to hear you've got yourself a long term councellor. I just wanted to say though if you can get a referal to a M&B doctor then they will treat you for as long as you have to be treated for, you won't have to pay anything towards it. They may not call it councelling, but it will certainly be part of your appointment. My local unit has a mum's group with a creche for group therapy (not so helpful to me though as someone with Birth Trauma, I wanted to talk about the birth all the time and the others there had PND and needed to talk about their depression) and there is a nurse therapist who I see, again putting Tink in the creche (between that and the taxi they send me, I'd go if I wasn't seeing the nurse!)

I'd keep up with the sessions you've found yourself and speak to your GP about a M&B referal.

Tinsel,what is M&B? Mother and baby?Or something else?

Argh...I'm having a bad day anyway...apart from just breaking the space bar on my computer (now all i have is the button underneath the bar how annoying!), I have had 4 hours sleep because of DS and my own brain keeping me awake. I'm finding I can't stop thinking about my friend and I'm becoming rather obsessed with the whole thing. I feel a bit mad with it all at moment!

Oh have to go, little monkey needs me.

Mother and baby unit I think?

You know what I do when brain spiralling - ipod with an audio book on. Really. It's totally patronising and so I can only recommend it it as I do it! I have miss Marple and some Jane Austen and something about the reading voice and calm reassuring stories just sends me off to sleep.
When I wake up in the night [maybe 4 to 8 times] it's still running, so before my brain gets time to get going I just start listening to the story and away I go!

This worked for my mate who couldn't sleep in 1st 3 months after baby was born. It helped her nap in day.

I go a bit bonkers night before a long day at work, and this has saved me!

Yes, Mother and Baby.

Try not to worry about how you are feeling, just remind yourself that it's not you it's the condition. I found that once I knew I wasn't in control of my feelings towards the birth and Tink I felt better about them, it might sound odd but it helped to know.

Thanks again, I may well try the audio book thing, but I'm such a light sleeper I need total darkness and total silence in order to get to sleep, especially if I'm tense. My dad suffers with insomnia though, and the only way he can get to sleep is by listening to radio 4!!

Tinsel, in my more positive moments I'm just trying to roll with the feelings rather than resist them. I encounter most trouble when I'm thinking things like, 'I shouldn't be feeling this!... What a horrible thing to think!...' etc. It's the judgments about the thoughts rather than the thoughts themselves that are usually the most irritating. If I can catch myself doing it then I'm ok. Just have to keep an eye on myself. I guess this is a bit similar to what you're saying?

I'm embarrassed to say now that I typed out my experience of my first child's birth, which the trainee midwife described as "the Rolls Royce of midwifery", and sent it off to the local paper as well as handing it out to friends and aquaintances!

I did have a wonderful waterbirth, at home, without any gas and air even, and to be fair I wanted to enlighten others about the joys of home births and water births in particular. I did go on to have 2 more waterbirths at home with the same midwife in attendance, but I did use gas and air for the last one because I was so knackered at 3 o'clock in the morning.

I still think homebirths should be far more widely offered but I do recognise it's not for everyone & have lost my evangelical streak I'm glad to say.

For those of you who may be feeling slightly envious at this point, I would like to say that none of my children ever slept through the night and I could count on one hand the number of full night's sleep I had in over 5 years. Also, my youngest 2 are on the autistic spectrum with all the hard work and worries that entails. I can tell you that I would rather have had traumatic births and normal children at the end than this way round.

Hard as it is, I think you have to allow yourself to move on from the birth trauma and enjoy your babies & children - they grow up so fast & you're very lucky to have healthy, normal babies. Enjoy

LazyWoman, thanks for your reply, however I do think it is (dare I say this?) somewhat ignorant to suggest that I 'allow' myself to move on from the birth trauma - particularly as you have never been through a traumatic birth yourself. If you read through the seven pages of discussion that precede your comment, you may discover that birth trauma isn't a choice and it's highly complex. If I could 'allow' myself to move on from it, I would have done so by now. The very nature of trauma is that you get (unwillingly) stuck in it. That's why I'm receiving counselling, and also benefiting from connecting with other women on mumsnet who have experienced traumatic births.

I do appreciate your comment that I am lucky to have a healthy, 'normal' (whatever that is!) child, and I appreciate this fact every day. I love my son dearly, and feel blessed to have such a wonderful, bright, precious spark of joy in my life. The trauma I experienced during my birth and labour is a shadow that casts itself over my life and I am working very hard to reduce it's influence on me. Luckily it doesn't interfere with my ability to appreciate my son and all the wonderful moments he has brought into my life so far.

You might also be interested to know that I had planned a homebirth, failing that a water birth in hospital, and I think that one of the reasons why I was so highly traumatised by the birth I did experience was because of my high expectations. The difference between what I had wanted and imagined and what I got was so incredibly vast.

Do you know, for some weird reason, it has just occurred to me right now that I don't really feel like I gave birth at all. I know that having a caesarean can make women feel like this, but it's just struck me how much this applies to me. Hmmmm...

Also... my son has NEVER slept through the night. Oh no, wait, he did once!!

Can someone link me to the trauma thread on mumsnet? I can't find it (and I know I'm being a bit stupid... sorry).

Im quite new on here, so im not sure how to link to other threads yet, but i found it by going into the topics list then onto Childbirth and its on the list in there somewhere!

Sorry that might not help much but i'm useless on this thing!

Hi coveredinsnot,

Sorry if my comments sounded dismissive - your feelings are valid about your experience & I really do hope you manage to find some answers for yourself so you can move forward.

I used the word "allow" because I know some women feel they've let themselves down when they have a less than wonderful birth experience. My niece had a really awful time with her recent first birth & then she gave up breastfeeding after 3 weeks because she didn't have the confidence to keep going. She was really upset about the birth and I know she's disappointed in herself for not persevering with the breastfeeding and paying too much attention the health visitor and not her instincts!

I think we women have such high expectations of ourselves - & having a "perfect" birth is just one of those things we expect so it becomes that much more traumatic when it doesn't happen. I don't think women of my mother's generation had such high expectations. I don't know how I would have coped if my own experience had have been different.

One thing I do believe though is that we will all have ups and downs with our children from the day they are born - some people have an easy birth, some breastfeed with no hassle, some have kids who are great sleepers, some have kids who will eat anything you put in front of them etc. etc. No-one has it all. There are always things that other kids do that you sometimes think that would be nice if mine did that!

I had a wonderful start to my children's life and although it's been tough sometimes, I feel lucky because I know there are those who are in a much worse situation than me.

Perhaps sometimes we lose perspective?

You had a traumatic start but you sound as if you're doing what you can to move on - I hope it gets better & better as time goes on

you beat me to it coverd. this is why i posted so much on here, i wanted women who haven't been there to realise it's not about a ''traumatic birth'' or ''means to an end'' it's a medical condition that effects your whole life! it's the same condition that effects soliders and someone on here iirc suffered after a car crash.

i'm amazed that anyone would swap a baby that sleeps through the night for a debilitating medical condition.

as it happens my dd was left chronic asthmatic due to her birth - which was physically traumtic as well as mentally, but that isn't always the case - it has also made her severely constipated and her paediatrician said we still don't know everything.

covered, it does sound like we're on the same wavelength with the feelings. it helps me to not beat myself up -for example i know i don't want to hurt her, the images are just the condition - but it doesn't take them away or stop me being frightened by some of it.

excuse the typing, i'm on a hospital bedside tv!

TBM - posted you on other thread to see how scan went? Is fact you are on patient line an answer? Hope all ok x

everything's ok, she's getting bigger, still breech though - it's the ctg, she always does it. i'm being kept in till tomorrow to see what happens, i did have more contractions tonght 1-5 mins apart. they put me on the monitor and they stopped! my tummy was rock hard though, the numbers were permanently high, they just weren't going far either way.

i want her out now! i feel far better about her being in their care than i do about these eggshells!

Great she's growing well, still plenty of time for her to swing round too. If she's sommersaulting that will make your uterus irritable as well so maybe causing the niggles?. Poor you you must be constantly just expecting to deliver! By means not yet decided! Roll on Thursday and consultant clinic. .

Tightning like mad myself so I can imagine your anxiety. Consultant for me on Wed, nervous of mentioning elective section. I know they would hate the idea.

Have not read the whole thread, I think being jealous is something we all do and dont admit to.

I have a friend who has a baby, she is one of my closest friends and I am insanely jealous of her as she has this beautiful baby, and although I would love to have one as would dp it is more likey to never happen. I of course would never tell my friend this.

I agree with Quattro that having an unpleasant birthing experience does have deep effects. I had a difficult birth followed by a very difficult experience of motherhood and I think I have literally grieved for the mothering experiences I dreamt off and never had and probably never will.

Of course we only see the good bits in others lives.

Covered, here is the link you asked for:Birth Trauma Support Thread
xxx

i'm convinced it's the monitor, before we got here you could see her leg then she went mad during monitoring, they took it off and you could see her head as i got up or coughed (i've got the virusthat's going riund). she's always in the right position but turns when i come in, i'd not noticed before that it's monitoring.

it might sound odd but i almost don't expect a baby, i've been in so often and passed my milestones!

i think we have a hudler or cheerleader in the making - she was doing american splits this am, one foot under herself and one by her face!

Thats an active child you have there Tinsel! Hope she doesn't keep you up all night hun x

Tinsel, sorry to hear you're in hospital, I'm not sure of your full story but it sounds like you are having to be monitored closely. I hope they are treating you well and you're not too anxious. Having a virus at the same time though, yuk... poor you! I hope it passes quickly.

And when it comes to the distressing thoughts, it's definitely a case of remembering that they're thoughts isn't it? Big difference between thinking something and doing it. Great to be able to admit to yourself that you're having the thoughts though, rather than simply trying to stuff them away somewhere as most people do.

Lazy - perhaps I misread your original message, or misinterpreted the tone, it's easily done when reading things. However, I think what Tinsel has said is true, PTSD is a condition and it's as valid and real as the PTSD that soldiers and survivors of other traumas experience - just a different trigger. I'm sorry to hear your niece has had such a rough time - I do think that a traumatic birth can make you lose faith in yourself and your mothering instincts, and feel as though you just want someone else to tell you what to do (a kind of hopelessness). Perhaps this is what she was experiencing. Perhaps she could benefit from some counselling?

I read somewhere recently that people hide their mental health difficulties so readily, yet go to the GP at the first hint of some physical problem. If you have an emotional problem, the response should be the same - to seek help and appropriate treatment if necessary. We live in such an isolated world as mothers (well, I do!) - I really think all the conversations we have on here are the kinds of things we would have spoken about when women had more contact with eachother... or perhaps I'm just being idealistic again!!

a random thought, i hope it's interesting too!

i've been an ambulance volunteer for the last 15 years and one thing we're taught is that bystanders are potential casualties, not in the casualty way where everyone gets in an accident but because the mental trauma of being there is enough to create a physical response. i think people with no experience of birth trauma either think (because they had a perfect birth themselves) that it's because someone didn't have a perfect birth or (because they didn't have a perfect birth but no lasting effects or they did have a good birth and can't imagine it any other way) because someone is too hung up on the means and doesn't think about the end.

just to comment on the ''end'' for me that was my own child dying and being given someone elses to look after.

we're still caught in the taboo of when ''lunatic assylums'' were the entertainment of the rich, after that until about 10-15 years ago mental health wasn't treated well. i know of old women who were locked up because they were grieving when their baby died. i can understand though why mothers don't want to tell someone they see themselves hurting their baby or hear voices telling them to do it.

D'you think it would be more useful for sufferers, to get rid of 'birth trauma' and simply label it Post Tramuatic Stress Disorder. No one is diagnosed with Post taumatic saw-a-car-crash disorder. It wouldn't have the 'loading' that mentioning birth has- everyone has an opinion on birthing and how it should be. It would protect privacy and allow sufferes to say why they felt they had the condition. Very few would pass a comment on car accidents/war/berevement and how they should be processed, lived through, recovered from and rationalised.

Treedelivery, I think a lot of people refer to it as post-natal PTSD as well as birth trauma, but PN-PTSD is such a long waffly name, and yes, you don't get post-war PTSD or post-car-crash PTSD. Just plain old PTSD for everyone else! I think you're so right about abandoning the birth-related bit. I'm going to from now on!

I've just seen how long that last post was, I'm impressed, I must have really been on a roll! In case anyone doesn't know it's a touch screen KBD and if you have nails you can't use it, the only finger I was able to use was the little finger on my right hand as it's the only one with no nail.

I agree Tree, I like PN-PTSD but it's rather long. I find my self [headbang] sometimes when reading the opinions of someone who hasn't experienced it because they do seem to be hung up on the birth part.

What has been great is seeing the change in coveredinsnot through this thread! To see you come to an understanding about what's happening to you and what the condition means. I found that once I knew it was a condition it all made sense and I could see why I was doing things or feeling a certain way.