to feel horribly jealous of my friend's perfect birth?

[coveredinsnot]

Ok, this might be a complete over reaction, but it was a strong enough reaction to stop me eating my lunch and get out for a bracing walk... Anything that stops me eating is usually serious

My friend had her baby yesterday, a water birth at hospital with only gas and air. While I am honestly, truly over the moon for her, I can't help but feel horribly, heartachingly, disgustingly jealous. I had longed for such a birth throughout my pregnancy, but ended up with a very traumatic experience in which neither my midwife nor partner really spoke to me for the majority of my labour, baby was posterior so labour was very painful and slow, I couldn't have an epidural and ended up having an emergency caesarean after over 20 hours of hard labour. After baby was born I didn't hold him for over 2 hours. It was horrible. I was drugged up for days afterwards and can't remember much about those early special days. I feel angry about my experience, but I'm even more angry that it's interfering with my ability to just feel complete happiness that a good friend hasn't had to go through such a trauma.

Is there something wrong with me, am I a cruel hearted bitch, or is this normal?

to coveredinsnot (great name for this time of year!): I had 3 totally different births (caesarean, ventouse, then 'perfect' home/ water birth) and do you know what, it's just part of each baby's life, and mine, but just one part. The children are all so different now.

You say you 'feel horribly, heartachingly, disgustingly jealous' but I think you are dealing with this in part already with your counselling, and as another poster suggests, maybe explaining this new feeling to your counsellor will help to focus on where the counselling needs to go for the next few sessions. My gut feeling is that you might need to spend time with the counsellor on this, and that is definitely won't be 'wasted' time.

I wonder also if once your friend has come down from the labour high hormones, she'll also need lots of support from you as a new mother, maybe even her own guilt about havign a 'perfect' birth, then not a 'perfect' baby or first few weeks or whatever.

Good luck, and hope you work this out.

Can I just say that as a newbie when I read these postings and others like them, I feel amazed. I can't pretend to understand where you have been, only try to show respect and empathy [if asked].

I have such respect for all you who have posted here with the things that have happened to you. Such powerfull experiences.

We women kick ass y'know! I try to celebrate that by being strong and firm and compassionate. I do realise my experiences and reactions to them cannot compare to those posted here.

Wow your messages have brought tears to my eyes. I feel overwhelmed with all the thought that has gone into your replies. Thank you so much.

For those of you that have posted here that have had babies damaged during the birth process, or other difficulties with your babies since they were born, my heart goes out to you - I cannot for one second imagine what it is like to cope in such a situation. I'm not trying to compare my situation to yours either, and to be honest, there's not a single day that goes by where I'm not thankful (to whom, I'm not sure as I'm not religious!) that my son is ok and healthy most of the time.

I think these thoughts are at the forefront of my mind, because like Tinsel I constantly imagine the most awful scenarios of what could be happening to my son at any moment. For example, he's asleep right now, and all I can think is that he's dead, or about to die, and I know that's irrational so I'll stop myself going to check on him, but eventually I will just in case. That's just a small and immediate example. I'm always thinking he's on the verge of death, I know it's ridiculous so please don't tell me!! There is a rational part to my brain as well, thank goodness, if that bit didn't exist, I don't know where I'd be. I'm not sure if this is OCD or simply some kind of pathological worry, since I don't have any other symptoms of OCD (checking him, perhaps?). Anyway... I can't say whether this is related to my birth experience or just my personality and other life factors, but I do know I felt guilty for not 'trying harder' when in labour, perhaps I would have been a better mother to him early on if not so whacked out on drugs and wrapped up in my own turmoil - I felt he wasn't my son for a good while, it was horrible, but maybe I'd have felt this anyway if I'd had a vaginal delivery. It's difficult to know.

God I'm waffling, but it is really helping. Thanks so much for all your support and advice. I'll definitely check out the Birth Trauma support thread and also the association.

Ah... he's awake!

Sorry not read everyones responses but had to respond to your latest message.

If you read the "symptoms of PTSD" then you'll probably find you have most of them. It felt like such a revelation to me when I got a diagnosing birth trauma/PTSD leaflet and I just spent ages staring at it thinking...yep I've got that...I do that....etc etc. And it was great to finally feel validated in my feelings. I wasn't mad or a bad person. I had an illness/disorder which could be treated.

I found the worst side effect to be the uncontrollable flashbacks and the constant scenario imagining. Wasn't just of the baby/kids in my case it was a constant imagining of things happening to everyone around me. And nearly always in the car which made me not want to drive anywhere.

Your right is it very difficult to know if you'd have felt this way if you'd have a vaginal birth. Birth trauma occurs from both cs's and vb's fairly equally (in my experience) and alot of other factors can contribute. For example the birth I had that I was traumatised from was an induction in which I was messed about alot in the hospital from. It took 4 days. I had 12 hours of synto contractions and they eventually lost the babys heartbeat leaving me and dh assuming she was dead. I had alot of interventions in the forms of them attempting fetal electrode and blood sampling (both failed) and I was left feeling assualted by a male ethnically background (no idea what proper pc term is) dr. The cs was a breeze in comparison to what I endured. So from my experience it was the induction that caused me most distress.

It took 2.5 years and another birth for me to finally be diagnosed. And thats a long time to be suffering and struggling so I'm really pleased you are getting help now. Please please talk to your counsellor about it. Mine massively helped me to go through it. Is your counsellor a woman and/or something that specialises in women related issues? Mine was and I totally felt she understood me and never judged me.

P.S. You are def not BU. I think its totally natural to be jealous of someone having something that you really want. Whilst I wouldn't wish my experience on my worst enemy its still very hard to watch/listen when people appear to get it so easy when I didn't (I personally find positive induction storys the hardest)

P.P.S. Fab website www.pni.org.uk/

THIS thread is what mumsnet is all about.

I had a shit first birth, and a brilliant second one with a Doula where I felt entirely in control. I still ended up on the verge of psychosis. At one point I hadn't slept in almost a month as I was getting up to check on the DC every few minutes.

I remember really vividly being in a shop with the double pram and having this overwhelming feeling to just walk away. I felt as though whatever happened to them they would be better off than being with me.It scared the shit out of me.

I really hope you can get the help and support you need, you clearly know your own mind very well which is a brilliant thing. Best wisjhes to you.

I was shocked when I was diagnosed with OCD as I didn't think I had any other symptoms - I'm far too lazy to be a clean freak! At first I thought I was what is called Pure O (just obsessional thoughts) but the more I thought about things (again part of my obsessions) the more I realised that I do have compulsive behaviour too. I always have to have the key in my hand when I shut the door, just checking it's in my pocket isn't enough; I write lists all the time; I research everything (as some of my posts show); I count my fingers and toes ...

You're not ridiculous, honestly (just read what I go through I'm sure I make anyone sound sane)

"I felt he wasn't my son for a good while"

Yeah, hospitals are really cruel aren't they? They take away your baby (goodness knows where, I was convinced mine had died) and then give you another one and say "have this one instead" then you've got the constant worry and looking over your shoulder that the real mother will turn up wanting their baby back! How're you supposed to bond with someone elses baby when you've lost yours and this ones mother will come back soon?

Yes, JacksFirstChristmasMama, I'm TinkerBellesMum Do you find AD's help? I have never found one that didn't make me feel ill, but I've found out recently that they can make Birth Trauma worse.

I vividly remember being scared to nip to the ice cream van, leaving ds1 with his dad for a few minutes. not because I thought anything would go wrong, but because I was scared I would run away and never go back.

Covered - I don't often post but you sound lovely, and like you've been having a rotten time. I hope it helps if I say that I had a similar birth to your friend with both my dcs (waterbirth, gas and air, over in 24 hours blah blah, what my husband, a medical man, described as 'textbook' - he's still paying for that one). But I still tore, I still get flashbacks to it, and my children were born into basically a blood-and-other-unmentionable-items soup, rather than the crystal waters you might fondly think of when imagining a water birth. But of course I don't mention that when I'm telling my friends about my birth experience ... Oh and I still check on my children - and indeed husband - often in the night to check they are still breathing and would consider myself reasonably sane. I think when you become a mother you open up a can of worms, worry-wise, that may touch on other issues too. Sorry, rambling post, but you are definitely not being unreasonable.

I was prescribed sertraline (it's called Zoloft here in Canada) and it made the most enormous difference, I can't even tell you. It made me feel the closest to "normal" (haha, whatever that is) that I'd been for months. Honestly, I don't know where I'd be without it.
Just want to say thank you again to everyone who shared their own "psychosis" here - I have been too scared to tell even my counsellor about things I imagine, and it helps so much to know that it's (here's that word again) normal for our circumstances. I've been on some wonderful threads on MN but so far this one has helped ease my mind the most (as in, I'm not completely nutty, and if I am, I'm in wonderful company ).

'There is also this darker, much more horrid fleeting thought I occasionally get: sometimes there is a part of me that almost wants people to have as bad an experience as me.'

Me too. I think it was more that I felt isolated by my experience and wanted other people to share it, or at least understand. This could only be possible imo if they had actually been through what I had.

Not unreasonable at all, it sounds like you need to find some way of dealing with your difficult birth experience properly.

I don't see what's wrong with simply saying to your friend how lucky she was to have the kind of birth that you would have loved, but leaving it there and not going on or making her feel bad over it, or undermining her happiness. Being jealous doesn't seem unreasonable, it's only how you express it which couold potentially be, but it doesn't seem likely from your first post that you would be.

Wasn't the actual birth that did it to me, but otherwise similar situation. After several weeks of failure to thrive I was beginning to have dreams about walking in the local park and finding another baby abandoned on the path, a baby that wanted me and my milk. And yet I knew I loved my dd, and always will do. The feeling of rejection and guilt were just so overwhelming.

I should of course have had counselling, but I was so busy struggling through each day.

The good news is that it hasn't done any permanent damage either to dd or to our relationship; she is now 12 and we are very, very close.

I felt like such a failure for having an epidural both times, so I sometimes feel the same as you when my friends have 'perfect' births. I however consider myself a total wimp!

In a passive-aggressive way I often don't bring up the subject when I know a friend/acquaintance has had a home/water/whatever birth as I don't want to have to find myself 'congratulating' her on her achievement! Even when I can sense that she's itching to tell me. Horrible aren't I?

But in my eyes YANBU, because you're reaction is in my eyes completely natural.

By the way, these feelings will fade, especially after subsequent births, and when you find new issues arising... you will have your opportunity to shine - when someone congratulates you on having such wonderful, well-behaved children!

Your, not you're

Why on earth a failure, LadyBunting? I "booked" my epidural in for both DCs at my first antenatal appointment. Who's judging? I don't recall anyone ever telling me there were rosettes being handed out for managing with no help.

Oh, and by the way, I get horribly jealous of friends whose children sleep for more than eleven-twelve hours a night, every night! Heaven forbid they should be the types who 'sleep in' at weekends!

Clam, when I was expecting dd1 we lived in a very 'trendy' area where the midwives really espoused natural births. I was (comparatively) young and I guess quite impressionable. Have to say with dd2 I was ledd bothered about what people thought and had a v relaxed (and again almost pain-free) delivery with her... but I still feel a bit of a failure for not experiencing the pain in full. IYKWIM.

It's mad though. I mean I wouldn't feel guilty about taking pain relief for root canal treatment. In fact I am off to take some pain killers for my head ache now!

Normal. Totally normal, Coveredinsnot. It's all about expectations and disappointment.

I had an emergency C-section with my DS. My friend had the peaceful water birth in the very midwife led unit I'd wanted to have my DS.

When I heard about her perfect birth scenario over the 'phone, I felt winded and had to crouch down very suddenly and cry hot tears. I was pleased for her but sad for me. You can be both!

Meanwhile, everybody's birth experience is different. One woman might feel a lot more pain than another and feel the need for pain relief. I hate hearing how women feel inadequate for needing help having their babies.

Nothing really to add to all the excellent advice on this thread. YAsoNBU though.

Having planned a water birth with just G&A I ended up with an emergency cs with ds1 because he was distressed. I didn't find it stressful at all though (anymore than labour is anyway as he was 8cm when I had my epidural and 9cm when I had my section) and looking back I'm amazed that I didn't really as it was quite a stressful situation to be in!

2nd time round I went for an elective cs as the thought of going through labour again only to end up with a cs again was not a situation I wanted to be in.

All a bit irrelevant really - just trying to illustrate how people can react really differently to a similar experience. Although ds1's birth couldn't have been further from the one i had planned I still found it a very positive experience. Probably as everything was explained to me really clearly so I never felt out of control and my dh was fantastic.

Agree totally with Thedevilwearsprimark that this is what MN is about. So often (and expecially in AIBU) there are women sniping at each other and belittling everything from parenting choices, birth choices and weaning. So lovely to see a thread where everyone pulls together and is only supportive.

OK so said I had nothing much to add and then went blethering on! sorry!

Birth Trauma isn't about the birth you had, I posted on another thread that my antenatal teacher said she met someone who was left traumatised after a MW said to her "get your knickers off the doctor's coming to examine you". Most women wouldn't even shrug it off because it's nothing to even think about, you're going to have a baby it's not coming out with your knickers on!

After my last labour scare a couple of weeks I was left feeling quite traumatised. What did it? Having an internal to check if I was dilated. It was the third time this pregnancy so why this time compared to any other I don't know. I ended up angry because I was spoken to quite badly about going in and the fact that I went through that twice and a fibronectin test (which is done with an unlubricated speculem) and am spoken to like I am a first timer who doesn't know the difference between wind, BH and contractions, like I would put myself through such horrible tests! I spent a couple of days feeling very low but when the lecture sunk in I felt angry.

It doesn't matter how easy or hard your birth experience was, it's all irrelevent. Nothing about it is logical and the same events to two different people end in two different results.

I have felt like this to the extent that I even came on here and on to other parenting sites trying to figure out how I could go about having a HBA3C. And ectually made a couple of seasoned homebirthers very nervous after I described my history! But one or two stories on here where such attempts had gone wrong, plus feeling rotten with morning sickness and not quite up to the job of a battle with the Irish Health Services led me to decide on a 4th CS. And thanks to my wonderful obs, anaesthesist and lovely dh it was actually a great experience and ds4 is a delight!
And I think you wouldn't be human if you didn't get a bit of a pang when someone else has a fabulous birth but we all have things in life which could have gone better and your friend will be no exception.

Haven't read all replies but wanted to say

I FELT EXACTLY THE SAME!

Didn't have a section but did have a tramtic birth.

A Friend had a lovely water birth and said "didn't really hurt that much at all!"