to feel horribly jealous of my friend's perfect birth?

[coveredinsnot]

Ok, this might be a complete over reaction, but it was a strong enough reaction to stop me eating my lunch and get out for a bracing walk... Anything that stops me eating is usually serious

My friend had her baby yesterday, a water birth at hospital with only gas and air. While I am honestly, truly over the moon for her, I can't help but feel horribly, heartachingly, disgustingly jealous. I had longed for such a birth throughout my pregnancy, but ended up with a very traumatic experience in which neither my midwife nor partner really spoke to me for the majority of my labour, baby was posterior so labour was very painful and slow, I couldn't have an epidural and ended up having an emergency caesarean after over 20 hours of hard labour. After baby was born I didn't hold him for over 2 hours. It was horrible. I was drugged up for days afterwards and can't remember much about those early special days. I feel angry about my experience, but I'm even more angry that it's interfering with my ability to just feel complete happiness that a good friend hasn't had to go through such a trauma.

Is there something wrong with me, am I a cruel hearted bitch, or is this normal?

Well, I think that we often feel much better when we meet somebody who has gone through the same horrible experience and we can share. Just the act of sharing and somebody understands can help so much. I think this is why we sometimes wish other would have the same (bad) experience. I's good that you have the counseling.

YA absolutely NBU.

Getting over a shitty birth is hard and takes a long time (if indeed we ever really manage it).

If I was in your shoes I would feel the same. You don't wish that your friend had a difficult birth, you just wish that yours could have been more how you wanted. Bloody normal reaction.

I was lucky that the births of both my children were relatively straightforward. My sister and a couple of friends had horrible times with interventions, difficult healing etc. I count my blessings on a regular basis that I 'got away with it' as it were and am bitterly disappointed and fucked off that the women I care about in my life (and women I have never met) didn't necessarily have a similarly positive experience.

I really believe that the trauma of a difficult birth is shocking under acknowledged in our culture and that many women suffer because of this. There but for the grace of God.

Shockingly even

I am glad you have started this post as I to resent hearing stories of people who have beautiful perfect births as mine was also the birth from hell and I have never yet heard another birth story to match mine! Although I do think sometimes what we see from the outside isn't necessairly the actual truth, I mean all births are painful to some degree and having a baby is hard work. But YA def not BU! XxX

Withcounselling, justsay whatcomes into your head. Agood therapist willbe able to work out whatsgoing on from your desperate needto talk about howmany people you saw withberets today... well, youknow what i mean. sorry, you had such a badexperience.

This is such a sad thread. It's truly shocking what some poor mums go through.

When I had my first, I knew he was going to be very large and with that and other considerations I was convinced it was going to be a long painful birth which would leave me ripped to pieces. So I opted for an epidural after 12 hours, to conserve my strength and when an emergency CS was decided on you cannot imagine the relief - I had been so worried one of us wouldn't survive a natural birth. I went on to have electives with my other two.

So I have had absolutely NO birth trauma whatsoever and I do not consider myself to have missed out on natural childbirth as I had quite enough of labour to get an idea of how much it hurts.

And yet, and yet . . . I read a wonderful birth story on here the other week and felt so jealous. And I often daydream about having a baby just like in one of those birth stories.

So I don't think YABU at all.

YANBU at all. It's very normal. Sounds like you had a horrible time and it's entirely rational to feel some grief for the perfect labour you didn't have. I had exactly the same experience as you when my bf had the "perfect birth" after my hellish c-section. And then wondered what was wrong with me that I couldn't be pleased for her.

For me, a lovely VBAC went a long way to healing and helping with those feelings. But I still get a pang when people tell me about their easy births.

It sounds like you're suffering from Birth Trauma, you're not jealous as such and not evil, it's just stung your Birth Trauma.

Unfortunately it's often missed by HCP's (even though I've been under mother and baby I haven't been diagnosed officially) and you get the diagnosis of PND (which I have been given) or just missed altogether. The two are opposite ends of the scale and you need to be sure which you have to be treated properly (you have described Birth Trauma more than PND) as the treatment for PND not only won't work but can make things worse if you have Birth Trauma.

As far as your counselling is concerned I would ask your GP to refer you to your local Mother and Baby unit and ask for counselling through them, you don't need a limit on your sessions. Use the limited one to talk about other issues - TBH I don't like counseling with a limit because you can't be sure that it will take 12 sessions and everything will be fixed. I think I will be in counseling for many years yet, not just because of Birth Trauma but the rest of my life.

hi my best friend gave birth about 5 weeks after i did and she had a (i thought) a fabulous time and her DD breast fed with no problems ,her DD was a angelic baby ,no tears ,slept through etc and i was madly jealous . We had a conversation about six months later when she said that during the birth and after she was so knackered that all she wanted was for the midwifes to take IT away so she could get some sleep ,plus her next baby was the devil incarnate (in a nice way!)and i realised that it doesnt matter how they got here ,what counts is that they are here ,happy and healthy ,so YANBU but time passes and what seems SO important now really isnt

Well, it seems that you have lots of company with your feelings and I'd like to join please. i was really jealous of my friend too, with her easy conception ("Oh look darling I'm preggers after only a month of trying") and her lovely, by the book home birth. It all seemed so easy and natural for her, as opposed to my years of trying and operations and eventual ivf and c section and 6 weeks in hospital. BUT I wouldn't swap my twins for the world and I think that's the important thing - you end up with YOUR baby, however difficult the journey and then the future is pretty much in your hands! I went to funeral yesterday - she was only 24 and had died in car crash about a mile away from where I live. Her mum said that she has recently said that the trouble with life is that you're half way through before you realise that it's a 'do it yourself' job.

Enjoy your baby and accept your feelings I think - they re all natural as we all want nothing but the very best for our children right from the very beginning!

YANBU! My dd turned one recently and I spent the whole evening before her birthday in floods of tears remembering how awful my birth experience had been (v. long labour, her heart rate falling dramitcally a few times, then emergency c-section). I had PND and I think my birth experience and the fact the dd didn't feed well was a big contribution. I'm ok now but DH and I were talking recently about when we might want to try for another baby and my instant reaction was 'I only having another baby if I can have an elective c-section'. I'm simply not prepared to risk another experience like that again.

Time and counselling have helped me, I hope they help you too.

To the outside world, I had the 'perfect birth' as you describe... waterbirth, only gas and air... but to those who know me well (and on here, where I am anonymous!), the truth is I had a third degree tear, I had all the pain relief going after the birth (morphine, spinal...), was in excruiating agony for two days after the birth, and had problems for months and months afterwards. Things are not always what they seem. Some people (like me) just put on a brave face to the outside world and just pretend that things are fine.

However, it was a tough time, and like you I found thinking about my birth a very upsetting experience for a very long time. Even hearing about other people's births would take me back to my own and I would get upset. Its natural when you have a rough time - don't be hard on yourself. Birth is a hard process, mentally not just physically!

Yes I think perhaps what it is is that every birth I hear of of someone close to me takes me right back to my own, and inevitably I end up comparing my experience to theirs. What would it have been like if I'd had a waterbirth on gas and air only? If I hadn't been blasted off my face on oramorph for the first three days of my baby's life? If I'd got to hold him straight away? Etc etc... I guess these feelings will never leave me, time will heal, as would a VBAC if I could face it, and if I am fortunate enough to have a second baby. Who knows. All I know now is that the gut-wrenching jealousy (it feels like jealousy, but perhaps it's something else?) I felt upon hearing my friend's birth announcement was simply horrible. But life isn't perfect. I wouldn't change my baby for the world, and who knows, if I hadn't had the c-section, perhaps he would have been hurt or something, and be different to how he is today.

Part of me has always wondered whether my inability to visualise myself giving birth vaginally before going into labour played some part in it never actually happening. But the other part of me thinks every woman has anxieties about labour and birth, but this doesn't stop it from happening. God I'm starting to sound mad now aren't I?

It's really helpful to share my thoughts here though. Fodder for the therapist, I think!!

Tinsel - I don't think I can get unlimited counselling in my area, especially not on the NHS. I was offered 6 sessions with the hospital, or the 12 sessions I opted for are with a charity, I have to pay but not much. I would LOVE ongoing counselling, but I can't afford it.

it is normal but you have to be thankful your baby is healthy. Thats the most important thing.
I fretted for years after my 3 c-sections, felt cheated and jealous. So I had a vbac for number 4. And it brain damaged her and she is quadraplegic.
The main thing is for your baby to be ok. Anything else is just icing.

I had a "horrific" birth experience with DS1, but I was just so thankful that he was here, and healthy. It did not put me off having another child.

With him I did have a "perfect" birth experience, by the time I got to hospital I was 10cm dilated and did have G&A.

He has severe problems though, and we don't know what the future holds. In fact, DS1 should have had DS2's issues.

I would give anything to have the situation reversed....

I'm on the other side as it is, all my friends go on about how "easy" it is for me to give birth, lose the weight etc. My first labour was 4h20m waters to baby, my third labour was 95 mins homebirth waters to baby. I have only ever had gas and air. Everyone goes on about how easy it was for me, how I'm lucky, it can't hurt that much as I only had gas and air. It might have only been 95 mins but it still hurt like hell, I still thought I was going to die (even third time round), she shot out so I had a second degree tear, I was sore and bruised afterwards. BFing was easy as I had made all the mistakes first time around, I was in size 10s the day after but I can't help it.

It's almost like you have to apologise for having it easy, it you didn't have 30 hour labours followed by a crash section you don't know your born.

I do have horrendous SPD in pregnancy so have to have some slack cut somewhere.

I have OK births but my babies are a nightmare (reflux, allergies, exclusion diets, eczema, constant crying, sleeplessness, failure to thrive, immune system problems)

Hopefully the shitiness is shared around a bit.

i felt grateful for my births but spent the first 18 months of my babies' lives feeling a tad jealous of anybody who had a normal/easy (whatever that means) baby.

Don't be too hard on yourself.

Don't beat yourself up about it; it is normal to be jealous of somebody who isn't suffering what you are suffering (and with an unresolved case of post-birth trauma you do carry on suffering).

But as NMC says, you do also want to count your blessings. If we met, I would almost certainly be jealous of you because your baby is not (as far as you've said) going to be disabled for life and you did not have to go through the month-long agony of Failure to Thrive.

And NMC would have much greater cause than me, as her dd's disability is far worse than my dd's.

Normal feeling- but naturally not one that you would want to spoil a friendship over.

Remember that everybody's reaction to the birth is unique; you don't know how your friend felt about hers. She may be traumatised for other reasons. Maybe she feels she can't complain about a trauma because she had a "natural" birth. I had a natural and not very prolonged birth with gas and air and was still in pain a year after.

Coveredinsnot, check out the Birth Trauma Support Thread. It may help.
(((HUGS)))

Are you being seen by a HCP or a counselor for your counselling? I see a nurse therapist once a fortnight which is why it's on going. Some psychiatrists will see people on a regular basis for counselling (I can think of someone I know who has been going regularly to one for a few years). I don't think Birth Trauma can really be written off in the space of 6 or 12 sessions, especially if you have other issues you need to bring in.

When I said it's not jealousy as such I didn't mean you're not jealous. It's like when you have a bruise and you poke it, it hurts but it's not the poke that hurts because if you poked anything else it wouldn't hurt, what hurts is that it's a sore spot.

I would recommend you look up The Birth Trauma Association and also have a look for the birth trauma support thread we have going on MN. The BTA may be able to put you in touch with someone who can help you - IIRC there is someone from there on MN.

Nice X-post there!

If I start a sentence with the words "when Tink was born..." I burst into tears because I know what's coming. I cry when I see people on TV getting to term, delivering and taking their baby home - I manage to control myself in front of other parents, but I think it's more real on TV when you can see it happening IYSWIM. I don't go a day without thinking about the birth. I have to stop myself talking about it. I'm convinced something is going to happen to Tink and see it vividly happening sometimes.

One thing I've found from threads like this is you can't understand what Birth Trauma is without having gone through it. So many, with the best intentions, will tell you to get over it (in one way or another) but it's not something you can just get over or forget about. You aren't in control of the emotions that make you feel jealous at someone else's birth experience.

I wonder if a solider was posting on MN about his/her PTSD from their war experiences if they'd be told to get over it quite the same way? It's exactly the same illness.

Tinsel... I do the same (worry about Jackbaby... can't even complete the sentence!!).
Encore what Tinsel said. And I like your comparison to the soldier.

PTSD causes OCD which is where the worrying comes from. It took me until last year when Tink was about 15 months old to admit that I saw her dying accidentally at my hands all the time. It got to the point where we were sitting on a cat and I was holding her tightly whilst her dad wanted to take her down the front to look over the edge. I saw her falling over and my mind was racing with what would happen. I was nearly crying and felt sick from the worry. I couldn't talk to anyone then when we got off I told Mum what had happened and she reassured me it was normal (she suffered from postnatal illness too) and to talk to my doctor. It was talking to my psychiatrist after that, that I was diagnosed with OCD.

I've just discovered I can't even post things like this without starting to cry!

I don't normally post about these things because I'm aware that mental health is still quite a stigma, but I'm hoping it is helping to have it here, especially with people's responses. Please, to everyone else, don't get me wrong, I know that no one has posted on here with bad intentions, but some of the responses aren't helpful to someone who is suffering from a real illness. You can no more pull yourself out of PTSD than you can any "physical" illness you can think of. Also, you can have an identical experience to someone else and come out of it without suffering PTSD whereas it can make the other person ill for years. In my antenatal class I met a solider from the first gulf war, he still suffers from PTSD but I bet that some of his friends didn't suffer at all.

OMG. Tinsel. I thought I was a bloody freak because I've imagined similar... was too scared to ever say anything to anyone in case they'd want me committed or think that I was too crazy to take of Jackbaby. I'm so sorry that this happens to you but thank you so much for saying something about it... I have seriously questioned my sanity sometimes. In fact, I try to make fun of myself so when I take my AD's in the morning, I say "Mama has to take her crazy-pills (or happy-pills, depending on the day) because Mama is a nutjob without them!". (Of course I will stop when I think Jackbaby might understand me... errmm, that means I should probably stop soon...
Seriously Tinsel, thank you. (Are you Tinkerbellesmummy?)
xxx

You are in no way being unreasonable.

Most people feel a shade of something towards friends who have the ideal car/house/breastfeeder/labouring pelvis/whatever - you are being honest and that is brilliant for your own state of mind!

I had an OK labour, could have been much much less fucking painful and slow! I could have spat at my bessie mate when she showed me the picture of her stood there at 8 cms with a tens machine and a smile. I seem to remember calling the staff horrible names because no bugger could get an epidural into me, and thinking I was being murdered, at that point!

I Also remember when babba was 2 months and our car was written off [we're paupers so this was HUGE] and wanting to fair burn the house down of a friend who had just been bought a brandnew car for getting pregnant. I didn't let myself dwell on it and fought it hard but God I was green. I love that friend and the feeling was alien uncomfortable, spikey and harsh.

I don't mean to trivialise your experiences with my own 2 examples - just to show how my postnatal period is rife with fragile hormonal mental states. Even for people like me who have relatively little to work through emotionally [as my experiences were within my coping zone and I literally leapt for help as soon as I saw where I was going - had the help of a wonder GP, MW and HV, and CBT therapy curtesy of the car insurance people]. When there is the addded dimension of postnatal depression or post traumatic stress, then really - it's a wonder we women can manage to even smile or get dressed!!

You are not being anything but real and brave, and you need absolutely nothing to feel bad about so take heart if you can, and seek help if you can't.