to feel horribly jealous of my friend's perfect birth?

[coveredinsnot]

Ok, this might be a complete over reaction, but it was a strong enough reaction to stop me eating my lunch and get out for a bracing walk... Anything that stops me eating is usually serious

My friend had her baby yesterday, a water birth at hospital with only gas and air. While I am honestly, truly over the moon for her, I can't help but feel horribly, heartachingly, disgustingly jealous. I had longed for such a birth throughout my pregnancy, but ended up with a very traumatic experience in which neither my midwife nor partner really spoke to me for the majority of my labour, baby was posterior so labour was very painful and slow, I couldn't have an epidural and ended up having an emergency caesarean after over 20 hours of hard labour. After baby was born I didn't hold him for over 2 hours. It was horrible. I was drugged up for days afterwards and can't remember much about those early special days. I feel angry about my experience, but I'm even more angry that it's interfering with my ability to just feel complete happiness that a good friend hasn't had to go through such a trauma.

Is there something wrong with me, am I a cruel hearted bitch, or is this normal?

I know it's definitely to do with expectations - I had only negative, horrific birth/ baby related experiences of friends and relatives to go by initially (literally not a single happy ending), so then read an Ina May Gaskin book which made me think that natural birth was the way forward, that birth could be wonderful and feel like a milestone in becoming a 'real' woman. The women in her book were all well supported by several midwives and their shaggy-haired partners, the reality of my labour was my poor rabbit-in-the-headlights DP stunned into a mute fool by seeing me in pain (I wasn't even making any noise for most of it, the wimp!)so he just literally said and did nothing... and a midwife from hell who decided it was best to sit in the corner and ignore me throughout the labour and not offer one word of encouragement... despite me stating in my very short birth plan that I responded very well to verbal encouragement. She did lots of other horrible things too, which I have formally complained about (made me feel a bit better). So, my would-be Ina May birth turned into a cold, stark do-it-yourself-while-we-sit-and-watch jobby. I've often wondered if I hadn't read all those amazing birth stories whether mine would seem so bad. (Please note: there were lots of other nasty things that happened, I haven't been traumatised simply from being ignored, although IMO that would be enough!).

I do know that if I had had good emotional support - no, any emotional support throughout my labour, that I would have fared much much much better. Next time, I'm having a fucking party in the room! I want everyone egging me on .

I must just say once again how helpful all your replies have been. And it's great to read that so many others feel they are benefiting from this too. Hugs all round!

'a cold, stark do-it-yourself-while-we-sit-and-watch jobby.'

See, that is exactly what I put in my birth plan after my very hands-on leave-me-alone-fgs traumatic previous birth exprience. Although I have to say, my midwife was VERY supportive in that she was doing the above BECAUSE it was in my birth plan, not because she was a cold-hearted bint.

But re party: I had a doula, my dp AND my mum as birth partners and we did have a bit of a laugh through contractions. My second birth was the perfect example of births that I was jealous of with my first. I do know now however how lucky I was having experience the first.

But some people could have exactly the same experience as you and be one of the people who have posted here that it's a means to an end. I don't think it's about the events or expectations, it's your perception of them.

covered...I can really sympathyse with you....I have gone through similar feelings myself, after ys was born...and that was after 2 reasonably positive experiences,....

so if you don't have those it must be even harder....honestly as long as you were not nasty to that friend, don't worry about it....

I meant as in feel guilty about it....you are obviously trying to work through this and it is a process that can take time!

Coveredinsnot - I think you should pat yourself on the back for starting this thread. I hope it's helping you as much as it's helping some of the rest of us.
Hugs all round and especially back at you.

OMG covered this has really brought up some memories for me. I had a hugely traumatic experience with ds1, PN PTSD, the works. I was literally driving home from an appointment with my therapist one night when I called a friend just to chat and pass the time (it was a one hour drive). I was actually feeling pretty good about my therapy appointment and the world in general. My "friend" then proceeds to tell me about another friend's birth that day at a birthing center - totally natural, quick ("She barely had time to get her panties off before she had the baby!") etc.

It immediately flooded me with shocking nightmarish pictures of my own 36 hour ordeal with ds1 that ended in a crash section. I got so upset that I took the wrong exit and ended up lost, confused and crying. I hung up and managed to call another friend who talked me down and got me on the right route home.

So, while I would never wish my own birth experience on anyone, I was not in a place where I could really feel good about hearing of someone else's perfect birth iykwim.

Whilst this has been really hard to read, it's been a revelation - I'm sure I'd be more aware of this stuff on MN if I looked at the appropriate threads, but I can't bear to yet. My DS was born 3 years ago.

I will quickly bypass the 5 days of induction, lack of epidural etc etc., nobody thinking there was a problem because "the baby seems fine", and just say that 3 years on I'm still incapable of getting a bikini wax, let alone a smear.

I've just started going to see an obstetrician as I'm pg. again, and when I had to have an internal u/sound it was as if I was in the middle of it all again. It's going to be a long 6 months. I feel as if I've got in a car I know is going to crash.

So no, OP, you are no being unreasonable, this stuff is hell to live with, although I still do my hardest not to let any mums know how I feel as I don't think it's fair to rain on their gorgeous moment (or what may be the great part of an otherwise tough first year or whatever).........

It's so sad to hear that so many of you have had awful experiences. Whilst I'm unhappy to read them, it is helping me in knowing I'm not alone.

I do want to say for those of you that have commented that I shouldn't say anything to make my friend feel bad or indicate what I'm going through as a result of hearing her story - I would never, ever dream of doing anything of the sort. I've posted her a card with a positive message which was all completely true, I'm totally thrilled for her and wish her well and will bend over backwards to help her in any way I can. She is a friend - I would never want to hurt her. I know enough now about labour, birth and motherhood to know that she will experience enough of her own troubles and traumas along the way. I don't want to bring her down off her wonderful high - I hope one day to experience the post-labour bliss feeling too, and would be mighty angry if someone brought me down off that!!

It's so helpful to know as well that others in similar situations have found hearing positive, 'easy' birth stories really difficult to hear. For those of you who have had those straightforward labour and birth experiences, please don't think for one second any of us are criticizing you. It's simply as another poster put it - hearing a birth story is like prodding a bruise, and it hurts. Hope that makes sense.

Do you know what? It's making me so mad that all these women are being so let down by maternity services. Overstretched midwives and shortages all over the delivery and post natal depts mean that so few of us are getting anything like the quality of care we deserve.

And do you think it would be like this if MEN had the babies? Of course not.

Women are getting a crap service again and again, and the poor midwives are so restricted about what they can do (as they are looking after so many more women than they should be) that it just keeps happening.

Coveredinsnot is one of so many of us that have had a lousy birth in an NHS hospital. We should be taking to the streets to protest, or organising sit-ins at parliament. But each time, there's always someone who says 'yes, but you've got a lovely baby' NOT THE POINT.

Sorry for the rant but ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Its not unreasonable to want someone else to be able to empathise with you and they can only ever really do that if they've had the same experience.

That's the marvel of MN - despite some of the stuff that gets posted being a bit unhelpful - there's always someone who feels just like you do, or who's had it worse.

Just track down some of the horror stories on here. Then hopefully you won't need to wish it on people you know in real life, you'll find plenty of people who can share your feelings and try to help you come to terms with the birth trauma (and probably your other demons too?)

I was beginning to feel sad about my non ideal first labour (induced, long labour, panicky emergency c-section). That was until a few days later I heard that a friend at work (who was having a parallel pregnancy) had had a natural birth that had gone wrong and her baby died.

I know its hard but I just try to tell myslef that all that matters is a healthy baby and mother at the end of it all.

FWIW had an idyllic natural VBAC the second time round the second birth doesnt necessarily mirror the misery of the first..

CoveredinSnot (fab name!), thank you thank you for starting this thread. It's brought up more than just the inferiority complex that's so common after a c-section. I felt so strongly that I 'hadn't done it right' that I went for a VBAC which ended in another EMCS! And felt a failure (huge expectations built up by midwives etc, other women in ante-natal group having 'perfect' births) which wasn't helped by comments about me being too posh to push.

I also still sometimes feel that pang when I hear about someone's fantastic water birth - yes, I'm pleased for them, but I want to scream. Similarly I'm secretly pleased when someone has the same experience as I did, which isn't a nice thing to admit to either. But it's about feeling you're not the only one, I think.

You are so, so NBU and I would think about setting aside maybe just one counselling session to talk about it. I know there's nothing practical that can be done about it, but it's got to be a good thing to voice some of those fears.

Hugs xx

BlueCow - I had a fairly shitty labour though not on the scale of some of those here, it affected me.
I had brilliant support from the staff there, but it was still lip wobblingly terrifying to sit there and know that your baby is in danger whilst experiencing pain I can only assume is akin to being repeatly stabbed slowly. No amount of support could have helped me - although a lack of support would have made it worse. I had to live it and no one could do it for me if I wanted to have that child. The I had to keep on living after it and that was tricky indeed.

I don't know what the answer is for cases like mine where, with the best will in the world, the blatent facts of the labour itself make it too much to bear, not the care or lack of it.

It's such a shame [understatement] that birthing humans can be like this. My cat just seemed to 'pod' her tribes!!

Coveredinsnot and Fairytale ending - I think you have both hit the nail on the head of my experience. I too felt guilty after my 1st child was born elective cs due to breech. 2nd time round I felt I needed to go for VBAC to prove something to myself (and everyone else). I read all the books eg hypnobirthing but still ended up feeling guilty for needing an epidural and forceps.

The logical (and medically trained) part of me knows that these measures were entirely appropriate but yet I am still typing here in tears. I too find it hard to listen to friend's experiences positive or otherwise without pangs of jealousy.

Jackaroo, you should really tell someone how you?re feeling. If you don?t want to talk to a doctor (I know I was worried about it) then talk to PALS as they will know just the right person to put you in touch with. I think you will find pregnancy and birth difficult if you don?t deal with your past feelings.

BTW, if anyone (thanks for reminding me BlueCow) is interested there is a thread on here about Birth Trauma and some action being taken (I?m full of the virus that?s going round so excuse me if I read wrong). I found it searching Birth Trauma when the support thread dropped off my list.

eilidhsmum - I know exactly what you mean, I felt like such a failure for having an epidural and syntocinon. But it was that or section so what was the choice really? And why do I think Ihave made the choice and why do I take responsibility for it? Does anyone know what I mean?

I mean, if I had cancer and was having chemotherapy, I wouldn't feel guilty if I got sicker or the choice or chemo wasn't 100% in retrospect. I'd leave all that management to experts, although I'd want info and input of course.

Why can't I just accept that the decisions were made by the maternity team - as I was a screaming devil a the time and in no fit state - and that they were [hopefully] based on the experience and knowledge they had. I'm in the trade and so I know that their decisions were sound, and yet......

It's 4 years on for me but when I think back to it I get a sort of desperate need to run. Anywhere, but definately run.

Ooh, yes, I forgot - so determined was I to 'do it right' the second time that I signed up for a hugely expensive hypnobirthing course, which made bugger all difference! Wish I'd gone for a doula instead ... but there I go again, wanting another chance to get it right. As I'm pretty certain I'm not having any more children, that chance has gone. I'm fairly sanguine about it now, but still get those 'what if' pangs occasionally. Healthy, happy children are all that matters in the end, and the feeling does fade gradually, even if it never quite goes away.

And the one big upside to C-sections - when DCs ask 'how did I get out of your tummy, Mummy?' you don't have to go pink and start explaining what a vagina is

I too had a traumatic birth, induction due to SPD, epidural that went wrong after a day in labour with nothing but hot water. Then an emergency C-section, where they topped up my epidural for op, and it didn't work......I felt everthing, and had to be put to sleep, then discharged the next day needing a blood transfusion. It took months to recover from, and i ended up with PTSD from the shock of it all.

Now i would never ever want to think of anybody else going through that, but when you hear of people having perfect births or even not perfect but not traumatic, i sit and wonder WHY ME??? It has changed me as a person forever and i will always worry that those dark days might return, I wouldnt change any of it if it meant not having my daughter, but WHY ME? Why couldnt i have the perfect birth?

Ah yes hypno birthing - my mate with the perfect birth said as long as the waves and the sea never reached her feet as she laid on the beach, she could cope with the pain.

Presumably MY sea had big bugger sharks in it!?

It seems very effective for many however, so can't pass any judgement as these things as so so individual.

Poor mate with the perfect birth, it's not as if her life is perfect, and to be honest her postnatal period was bloody hard hard work whereas my breastfeding, for example, was a dream. But sometimes it is very very hard not to spit out my dummy and wish my sea had no sharks in it. Especially as I'm doing this again in 6 freaking weeks!

Ouch oneyummymummy! They didn't do an epidural with me because of my PGP and my physio said it was a good job too. As much as I hate the GA and know we're probably going there again (as much as they say we're not and go on about my Heparin, I know it's not going to be good for my back) I can't imagine making this back any worse.

To the OP - try not to be jealous. Chances are her birth wasn't perfect. We all have different issues and problems, and the perfect birth is probably a very rare thing. I had a very easy birth with DD1, thought I had got away with it easily, and then went on to have a post-natal DVT 10 days later.

Birth Trauma has nothing to do with having the perfect birth neither has the feelings relating to the jealousy of someone else's birth. Some people have a text book birth and are really happy with everything that happened in it except some comment that someone made or something that someone did and for some reason their brain doesn't compute it properly and pow they have Birth Trauma.

A lot of messages on this thread are, with all the best intentions I appreciate, missing that point. It's a real medical condition and you can't just shrug it off by thinking that no birth is perfect or birth is just a means to an end.

Would you (generic you, not pointing to any one person on here) tell a solider s/he only spent X months in [insert war torn country here] it's such a small part of his/her life they shouldn't let PTSD get to them?

Tinsel, noone is denying that the OP is suffering from genuine trauma. The only reason jealousy came up for discussion was because she, very bravely, said that she felt jealous of her friend. Noone has tried to make her feel bad about it. We do understand.

This is a bit of an essay and massive issue, don't mean to hijack!

TinselBM and all - do you think birth trauma has something to do with the idea that we as the labouring womeb have choice and control, when in reality we have no 'control' over our pelvis shape, position of baby, fetal distress, what a Dr or midwife say, how long it takes, how much it hurts etc etc

I mean we can have influence and can work with the natural processes, the institution that is the NHS and so on -but ultimatley we cannot control these things.

But are we are sort of led to think we can, and that if we exercise our control and choice in some clever way or other, it will all unfold the way we want it to.That creates a sort of friction point when it just doesn't. For whatever reason in whatever way.

Or is birth trauma a different thing to what I've described abouve - a totally unpredictable state of mind that has no common factors? Maybe what I've described is more dissapointment and anger at the expereience.

Discuss.