To think that all those generations of women who battled for equality for women have actually achieved nothing!

[flixx]

All that has changed is that women are now expected to go out and work and well as still being souly responsible for the vast majority of domestic stuff and childcare.

Womens lives aren't better or easier, infact they are now so complicated that half of us are so stressed and knackered we don't even remember who we are anymore.

The role of a mother is less valued by society than it has ever been when we all know that it truely is THE hardest job ever.

But even if the man shares the workload, the two of you still have three jobs between you wheras in the past it would be just one.

All that has happened is that the ecenomy and cost of living etc. is now based on dual income households.

VT - I'm with you.

This has gotten ridiculous. An argument about the inherent patriarchy of religions, yes, but saying that since we revere God the father we should also revere real mothers? Um, it's because he's God, not because he's male. No-one is asking you to revere your real-life father.

Creating human life is so amazing that quite a lot of people do it by accident.

To some extent i agree with this comment. Apart from the fact that we interact more with the opposite sex and society is more tolerable with women expressing themselves.

I remember an ex boyfriend assuming i was a great cook, which i really am not. I overreacted slightly and accused him of being a sexist idiot.

You say women don't have equality because they are expected to go back to work after having a baby. This is a far better situation than it used to be, when it was expected that a pregnant women would give up work and not go back to work, like my mother.

When my parents bought their first house my mother's income was not taken into account, even though she was the higher earner.

I don't think things are equal by any means. Irritatingly, the women I work with seem to think it is fine for them to make sexist comments that reinforce the inequalities. Others speak negatively about part time workers because they are "only" part time. It goes on.

Equality is about having choices, and sadly in the current situation there are very few women who have the choice not to work, or indeed to work. So the battle continues.

There's still a LONG way to go, look, sexist advice sent home from school assuming girls don't want to become rocket scientists.

Yes, lots of things have to happen still, but massive progress has been made. More so in Western countries, admittedly. However, I'd keep in mind that "equal" doesn't have to mean "the same". Too many people make that mistake. As far as I'm concerned, having equality doesn't necessarily mean you have to do the same thing as a man? The point is that women have more choices than ever before and while acting on those choices is still often hard, especially in certain countries, at least the world is thinking about these things and continuing to fight for them.

And frankly, we'll never achieve "equality" as long as we continue to beat each other up about our life choices. I honestly don't think I've ever heard a man say, "I don't understand why Pete would want to be car salesman when he could have been a banker" but a woman can't even decide whether to work or not without being attacked and commented on by a lot of other people - mostly women.

Haha llareggub - we've got the same theory on choices but I have a slightly happier view than you!

I really quite seriously very much do not want to be revered for my parturitive capacities.

Revere me for just about anything else, feel free - but not for the fact that I've produced offspring.

verbose!

Two women die a week at the hands of their partners in this country. And the pay gap is what - we earn 70 per cent of what men earn.
Those people who are saying: "Ohhh I love my dh, he's very nice to me and our children I can go to work", are missing the point.

And don't get me started on very low conviction rate for rapists.

Some things have got better, largely for middle class women. The three things above are an important measure of things which have not progressed one jot. And the conviction rate for rapists has gone backwards.
YANBU.

The pay gap is a problem. As is the fact that even in industries that are mostly staffed by women, men tend to be the senior managers. But... the part where progress has been made is that at least we DO do these jobs. I work for a bank - I have a pretty good corporate title (it's v important in banks ), work in a professional capacity and am considered valuable (I hope). My grandmother also worked for a bank. For her time, she was considered quite "the thing" as she was, in time, promoted to be the personal assistant for one of the main partners - from her original job as switchboard operator.

Not quite the same.

I'm not saying there isn't MASSES still to do, I'm just saying that we should at least realise that feminism hasn't been a complete failure.

Haven't read whole thread, but I can't agree with the OP!
Any woman who works the same hours in a job with the same degree of challenge as her partner, and still does most of the childcare and house stuff is nuts - and she only has herself to blame!

I'm glad we've moved on from where we were a few generations ago. Remember, it's not all that long since women were basically expected to maybe get a 'little job' before hopefully catching a husband, and then giving over their entire life to breeding. It wasn't the norm for women to go on to Higher Education, and certain professions were inaccessible to women. Anyone who has a daughter, I challenge you to look her in the eye and tell her that things were better in the old days.I for one am very pleased that my daughters are as aspirational as my son, and that they expect far more out of life than to just get married and stay home. And equally, I hope my son will expect to be a hands on father if he chooses to become one, rather than just thinking that his role is to go out and earn and then come home and put his feet up.

I agree with whoever said that we are the first generation where change has really started to happen...

Dp does loads at home and is fab with the kids but his mother can be rude about this. Her dh (my FIL) does nothing at all around the house and she is basically a servant to him. She'll feed him before the children, make the children wait for him. She'll comment if my dh has to make his own lunch, do his own ironing even when I was working full time. My job was always 'nice' but never has wonderful as dh's. She couldn't wait for me to give up b/f with both ds's. This is inside our family and nothing to do with pay gaps, equal rights etc. We are still fighting to be equal in our own families (I can't believe I'm the only one?)

I think how women treat other women sometimes gets lost in the argument.

It's all connected though. If society shows it doesn't value women (less money for work of equal value, domestic violence, misogyny entrenched in many areas including the church) it gives a green light to men (and some women, unfortunately) to resist any moves to close pay gaps, etc, not convict rapists, etc.

Don't know how people can say "what is there to whinge about when women are not safe at home or on the streets, sometimes.

The OP was suggesting that things haven't moved on at all. No one is saying we have reached (or will ever reach) a perfect society. But things are a hell of a lot better than in previous generations, that's for sure!

what i find depressing is that years after the suffragettes, some women still see themselves as nothing but sex objects..plastic surgery to have bigger tits, young women that think being a lap dancer is "liberating"

emily pankhurst must be turning in her grave.

muppetgirl on Tue 02-Dec-08 18:34:21
Same as you!