To think that all those generations of women who battled for equality for women have actually achieved nothing!

[flixx]

All that has changed is that women are now expected to go out and work and well as still being souly responsible for the vast majority of domestic stuff and childcare.

Womens lives aren't better or easier, infact they are now so complicated that half of us are so stressed and knackered we don't even remember who we are anymore.

The role of a mother is less valued by society than it has ever been when we all know that it truely is THE hardest job ever.

Quite frankly, the cost of childcare is a massive issue to women (and men!) who aren't on a low income.

but feminism wasn;t about trying to make womens life less comlicated or value mothers more. It was (is?) about giving women equal opportunities to men, whether married single with or without kids.

That has been partially achieved in many way but not fully.

I'm biased as without feminism I probably wouldn't have got a university education and be in a reasonably well paid and certianly wouldnt have DS as adoption by single women would have been unthinkable.

Any woman who is fully responsible for the domestic chores when she doesn't want to be only has herself to blame IMVHO.

Daftpunk, I don't want to be helped to stay at home to do housework. I want my partner to do his share of the housework.

Hi Kew.

Message withdrawn

anniemac...people in my posistion?

if you think women have come a long way just because we can now pay someone else to look after our children while we slog away on the till at tesco... then you are totally misguided.

been nice chatting with you, have to go & do school run.

daftpunk, with access to education, you also have the opportunity to qualify for a better paid job than checkout girl at tescos. Hurray for education for women.

I completely agree. I will explain why:-

Working women who fall pregnant are given 9 months with their child and then the option of an extra 3 months. Women who then return to work are missing out on their child?s life and naturally, a child should be with its Mother.

If a mother decided to quit her job, and become a SAHM ? it?s unusual, and whatever you say, it is often frowned upon ? albeit usually by childless people.

I don?t think it?s entirely down to society, I would say it?s majorly the modern life we live in, i.e., financially ? women just can?t afford to stay at home.

I have to say I think women who ?have it all? are living in a dream world. Yes they have a child and a cracking career, but whilst we?re out getting the career, someone else is raising our children.

Haven't read entire thread. Don't think it's possible to give a clear answer though.

I certainly don't think that the early feminists battled for nothing. Attitudes have changed and in relationships where couples share domestic and professional responsibilities equally, it's working really well. BUT judging from threads on hear, many men have a lot of catching up to do on the domestic front. Women also have to take more responsibility for the way we allow ourselves to be treated.

On the other hand, you only have to look at society's (or one section of society's) view of a "perfect" woman nowadays and she (usually appearing in a constricting dress, in high heels on a red carpet) will have no breasts or hips or notable female form to speak of (ie will look like a child) and if she manages to procreate will be expected to resume her childlike form again in 6 weeks. That's what I personally find so depressing; that and the rise of women deluding themselves that they are "empowered" by jobs that depend on their looks and not their brains.

Meant to say that I also agree that their should be more state help for women to stay at home for longer to raise small dc if that's their wish

oops 'there' should be

Fio, I meant to emphasize your point, not disagree with it. I'm not on a low income and I find the cost of childcare almost crippling. Can't bear to think what it would be like if I was on a low income.

I think childcare should be wholly and completely tax deductible for everyone who is employing that childcare for the sole purpose of going to work. (which is just about everyone)

Zebraa, you are coming into this with preconceived notions about what women want and what is best for children when you say: "Women who then return to work are missing out on their child?s life and naturally, a child should be with its Mother."

I disagree, naturally. Look at my replies to daftpunk's posts below.

"If a mother decided to quit her job, and become a SAHM ? it?s unusual, and whatever you say, it is often frowned upon ? albeit usually by childless people"

Who are all these random people that expressed an opinion on you giving up work? I can't imagine anyone other than me really giving two hoots.

anniemac - or maybe, most mothers who work full time don't have time to spend their days posting on chat forums

"I have to say I think women who ?have it all? are living in a dream world"

So its OK for men but not for women? Men are still allowed to consider themselves instrumental in their childs upbringing if they work but not women? Do you stop "raising" them when they go to school and spend more time there and out at friends/at other activities than with you?

Do you know the childrne of parents who work - do you really think they seem like thier children are raised by someone else?

Can't beleive people on MN persist in beleiving that its WOHM that have an issue with SAHM's (apart from a tiny handful of posers) when posts like that are made.

I will be raising my son to beleive that he has a responsibility to raise his children well and provide for them and that may involve him owrking part-time or at home. I can but hope he listens and learns despite the fact that IO'm not really raising him.

(PS was visited by social services yesterday who appear to think I'm doing OK with him...)

"the cost of childcare is a massive issue to women on a low income though "

sorry to intrude again but i was wondering if this could be explained to me as a man. i fail to see how childcare is a sexist issue. there was a thread on here the other day as well about wether or not a library should be a child free area and many argued that this would be indirect sexism. as women tend to be the ones who do the majority of child care organisation. but how can this be sexist in this day and age when surely if women are doing the majority of childcare it is because of choices they have made along the way. either with regards the person that they have had a child with or the division of labour within their family. while i accept that their should be support for all single parents (male ad female) i fail to see how something which applies equally to men and women in similar positions can be claimed as sexist and i think that it leads to genuine discrimination being lost in pile. it would be akin to men claiming that higher tax brackets are sexist because statistically their are more males earning in the higher figures.when that's also bullshit because it is a blanket rule that applies equally to both sexes who find themselves in that scenario.

the laugh is on WOHM/SAHM arguments is that I've never met anyone in RL who gives a shit what I do or is so totally convinced their way is right - most mothers I meet seem convinced their way isn;t working and they are irretrievably damaging their DC's because of the way they are raising them.

Admire thse who have such certainty that their way is best.

(Anniemac - I have 3 yr old and work effectively full time)