to feel uncomfortable being served by woman with tourettes that kept swearing at me?

[racmac]

I went to a well known high street store and was served by a lady who had tourettes. I have no problem with this or any of her ticks BUT she kept saying cunt and wanker - i dont use these words in front of my children so dont expect others to AIBU in expecting that she shouldnt be serving customers?

It was rather disconcerting to be told "thats £20.00 please, cunt, wanker"

Racmac

An employer has the right to employ people that they feel can do the job effectively. I would employ the person I felt was the best fit for the job. There are all kinds of jobs that many of us are not suited to - there is nothing remotely discrimatory about this fact!

findtheriver on Tue 02-Dec-08 07:10:11
"An employer has the right to employ people that they feel can do the job effectively."

Well, M&S clearly have.

cory - I wouldnt feel in a position to comment, as I don't know the woman! I have certainly come across a number of people in my lifetime who don't carry out their job in an effective and acceptable way, so I don't think we can assume that just because someone is appointed to a post that they are the best person for it!

No, certainly. Of course we may think employers make wrong decisions. But you started by saying "an employer has the right" so I merely pointed out that M&S are exercising this right.

In the present case, there is no suggestion that the woman is inefficient at her work. The whole discussion centres around whether involuntary swearing tics are unacceptable when dealing with the general public.

I am on the side of "not a huge problem" on this one; my children are regularly exposed to swearing tics from a local inhabitant and I have never noticed any ill effects. Tics are so clearly different from ordinary swearing and it is so easy to explain this to even a young child.

So many informative posts..

All this time I've been a disabled person freely mixing among normals whilst doing my job. Shocking! Shouldn't I have known that I would be better off with my own kind (perhaps in some kind of closed community/camp?).

And to top it all I've engaged in socially unaccepatble behaviour such as having seizures in public. Apoligies to all parents whose children have seen me having seizures when I should have been locked away.

Disableds.. know your place!

Apologies

obviously.

Maybe she just didn't like you?

Could not read all of this mammouth thread, but your OP phrasing made me spit my tea laughing.

Seriously though, you might think that direct customer service wouldn't be the most suitable position for someone with this condition?? For her own sake really, given that some people take being verbally abused as seriously as physical. I know, of course it's not meant at anyone, but she could upset someone intolerant who could get really and nasty with her.
Usually at M&S they are trained to ask you how your day was etc to jedi mind-trick you out of how much you've just spent, so it seems even stranger there to be called a c**t!

Lotster might help the read the thread

Just finished it thanks.

Wanted to respond directly to OP without getting dragged in to the ensuing fight, nothing to add anyway.

Of course you have to remember that a disabled person may just not be very good at their job, or not well suited to it. Just as an abled person may not be.
It seems almost impossible to assert this blindingly obvious fact without being shouted down.

Yes that is blindingly obvious, and blindingly irrelevant.

Loads of people are crap at their job.

It's not irrelevant - some posters seem to have assumed that someone with a disability must be perfectly able to do XXX job, when the reality is that they just may not be the best person for it.

It is not irrelevant to RL, findtheriver, but it is irrelevant to this thread. Because the OP was not: "should this disabled person be allowed to hold this job though she is obviously incapable?". It was "should this person be allowed to hold this job though it means customers are brought into contact with her disability?" If the OP had stated that the woman was incapable of stacking shelves or handing back the correct change, then I would happily call for her dismissal.

The question we are trying to decide is "do Tourette's tics equate to an inability to do this job?". Nothing more, nothing less.

Not read all posts as I came quite late in it.

I just thought of one good reason they should not have put this lady in front of customers, asside it being maybe shocking for some people, what if someone start shouting abuse at her because they do not know what tourette is? (i didn't know anything about it until very recently when they talked about the condition in an episode of Casualty). Surely this is bound to happen if it hasot already.

sorry if I am repeating anyone's argument.

I said something similar earlier Onthewarpath, but it's good to know I'm not alone in that view

Cory - I think the point of the thread is "Do I have to put up with being called a c**t in front of my child, just so as to not look un-pc?" She shouldn't have to deal with it, (and I know she wasn't really being called this) and everyone who has cried ignorance and intolerance is failing to see that.
As someone who has both autism and personality disorder in my family, I am aware of people's lack of sympathy and understanding for people with special needs or disorders, but there is such a thing as taking it too far. Putting someone likely to make customers feel abused (even when this isn't the intention) at a cash desk doesn't make sense to me.

A tic does not look like something said with intent though.

And however much we debate the ins and outs of suitability if M&S refused to allow her to work on the till because of TS, then they would be in breach of the DDA. And could be fined.

I think the argument that 'people might not know what TS is' is an argument for more not less inclusion. (And I am not a fan of inclusion for many conditions- but I think someone with TS can make their own mind up and doesn't need protecting).

jimjams save your fingers. people are just posting with out readind the thread, unless we then repeat the whole thread for them they will never "learn"

I am amazed by jimjamshaslefttheyurt patience. These people are either stupid or don't want to learn.

Prehaps their total lack of intellect they are more disabled than the most severe tourettes sufferers.

Most people with Tourettes do not want to be pitied. Nor do they consider themselves disabled.

Reallytired I think you have a pont, dd has severe cp and would have got it long ago.

Sorry i haven't read the entire thread as i annoyed me so much, nut surely this lady may just be Very good at her job & thats why she is in a customer service role, perhaps she is very good with customers!
Perhaps her employers have the intelligence to see past the disability & look at the persons abilities & have put her in the role that best suits her personality & skills.

I think that is where the devision is.....i.e. what makes a customer service person be good at their job.....

some people feel that swearing would be unacceptable and others think it isn't as long as it was a tic...

like I said before, if served in a shop...not sure I would care to much...but there are situations I may care...i.e. if a patient at hospital in a bad way and emotionally already drained, for instance....I really am not sure I would appreciate being sworn at at that time...
but that is the whole suitablility question...I am not sure that at that precise moment I would appreciate all this....

however, I believe people arguing for this are not necessarily saying that a disabled person should get the job no matter what, but that they are also saying suitability of that role has importance. But that we, as a society have to look a bit deeper of what suitability means, etc....!
I think that is it, anyway....

I'm just saying legally it's tough luck. Someone cannot (under the DDA) be refused a customer service role because of TS. Therefore if people are still uncomfortable in the presence of someone with TS (and a tic is not delivered in the same way as a swear word with intent so should be very easy to tell apart even to those who have somehow never met someone with TS before) they'll have to get over it. Or shop online.

I'm just saying legally it's tough luck. Someone cannot (under the DDA) be refused a customer service role because of TS. Therefore if people are still uncomfortable in the presence of someone with TS (and a tic is not delivered in the same way as a swear word with intent so should be very easy to tell apart even to those who have somehow never met someone with TS before) they'll have to get over it. Or shop online.