to feel uncomfortable being served by woman with tourettes that kept swearing at me?

[racmac]

I went to a well known high street store and was served by a lady who had tourettes. I have no problem with this or any of her ticks BUT she kept saying cunt and wanker - i dont use these words in front of my children so dont expect others to AIBU in expecting that she shouldnt be serving customers?

It was rather disconcerting to be told "thats £20.00 please, cunt, wanker"

Racmac

Lots of us get so tied up in knots about disability or some other kind of 'difference' -- either getting upset or trying overhard to be accomodating ets, and it all starts to evaporate as soon as we start to encounter the 'different' person as part of our ordinary life. That's why the DDA act might be so valuable for all of us, not just disabled people.

My own experience was of meeting a colleague who was a transsexual. For the first part of working with her I just kept being stupidly preoccupied with the fact that she was a transsexual -- not hostile of course but self-conscious.

Then you get over it and get on with things.

onager what you are saying isn't complicated. I don't think you are overwhelming anyone's intellect.

Threadworm - you read my mind!

onager, i understand you perfectly, unfortunately.

onager oh dear have you realised that you have lost, so are now resorting to slagging Jimhams off.
ffs jimjams knows more about sn that most people on mn. yet you still think you know better!!

?If all behaviour that someone cannot help is acceptable (like the masturbator on the bus) then why stop peadophiles working in nurseries? After all it's
not they fault is it.? onager at that point of the discussion you lost it imo. Paedophilia is not a disability. But even if it was, the fact that the paedophile hurts people as a result of their condition would mean that additional steps would need to be taken to ensure that they, and others were kept safe.

If a person had a disability that meant they were extremely violent, then it would also go without saying that steps should be taken to ensure that they did not cause harm to others.

However swearing is not a criminal offence. Neither is it going to cause physical, or in fact emotional harm to anyone. We hear it in the streets, the park, on the buss, and although it's not always nice to hear it no-one died.

?jimjamshaslefttheyurt, if your job involves speaking to people and you can't control your speech then you cannot do the job properly. How hard is that to
understand?? but she can speak. She may not speak in the conventional sense, i.e. she has some ticks, but her speach doesn't prevent her doing her job - apparently the op did manage to purchase her goods and leave the store without having to resort to asking for help from someone else. On that basis would you then say that someone who could not see should not have a customer facing role either because they cannot make eye contact?

onager - if you stop trying to be clever for a minute and actually find out something about TS- you might understand why comparisons such as those you make are not appropriate. A tic can not be compared to something that is done with intent or under conscious control. It is simply not comparing like with like. The fact that you repeatedly do this (along with making comparisons to paedophilia) strongly suggests that you do not know enough about TS to really make sensible comparisons.

oh dear. So now you are stooping to personal insults to put your point across onager? that's really not very clever is it. Well...

The woman discussed in the op has a disability, lots of the posters on this thread have disabilities or have children with disabilities. As a society we have passed the point of wanting to hide people with disabilities from those who don't wish to have to see them. They are equal members of society you see. They have as much right to do an equal job and to be as much a part of every day life as everyone else.

You on the other hand are an ignorant bigot, and as a society I think we've passed the point of having to be tolerant of that.

hmm...just playing devils advocate...but the way I read onagers post was, that someone with tourettes can't help having tourettes than it's something within the brain that makes them say "forbidden" words, and onager was wondering if that was some sort of disconnection to say words one was told NOT to say....and that those may include Racist words...

tbh, I don't know that much about tourettes and have no idea why, those that do have the swearing tic, do what they do...but I am glad jimjams pointed out that not all people with tourettes actually do have the swearing tic...but that one does seem to be the one used in "storylines" and media and therefore seems to be one of the mainthings people do know about tourettes (and that would include me....it is the one thing sticking in my mind...watching BB forinstance with Pete in it....)...

anyhow...namecalling is not necessary, but neither is the scathing from the other side, iykwim...it is not surprising in such emotive topic for people to become heated though, I suppose....

However, as I stated earlier on, I am truely neither here nor there with this issue.And tbh, I have not gotten much further, well, when considering the "wider" issue....i.e. tbh, in a saleperson I suppose it actually wouldn't bother me....Kids or not...well, that conclusion I have actually come too....but, I am still not clear within myself, now...how I would feel if a nurse, maybe at my most vulnurable state, or a midwife or a Doctor or even a Policeman would sear at me due to tourettes...so, I suppose really what I am saying is...how would others feel about that...because, well, when dealing with those professions you probably are ina more vulnurable state....so...I really don't know...iykwim...

Aitch, sadly that seems to be not all that abnormal....I only have a bilteral cleft lip and palate, and I have had some stupid, ignorant comments....but to be onest, what has always bothered me most as, when people spoke extra slow and clear and loud with lots of gesticulation, because of course if you don't look like everyone else you must have learning difficulties, clearly....

Sometimes though people just don't think....had my Courseleader (when training to be a nurse) saying, that she is surprised about my self confidence....because normally people like me don't have self confidence...

erm...ya what?Was what I thought...I was gobsmacked so never replied!

Interesting point ChristmasFairy. I think I come back to the view that whilst I would be shocked initially - probably more so in a vulnerable state I agree - I hope I could move past it and see that the words were not used with intent.

that is what I have been trying to get my head around...ever since that thought popped into my head....

Also...how much do people with tourettes realize that they act inappropriately...and not just via reactions they get...but from within....
because, if a person does notice and is embaressed....is that person really best placed where they in effect might feel very uncomfortable....and I mean now within themselfs....

cf I would imagine it depends on the individual.

Some people are more self conscious than others after all - in all walks of life. I remember watching a programme about people with tourettes once, and they had a girl on whose ticks were so bad she could bearly speak. And she was so self conscious about it she hadn't left the house in years.

But this woman referred to in the op clearly can't be that self conscious about her condition as she's apparently comfortable working on a till serving the public. And presumably serving the public would have been in the job description when she applied for the position.

I think we need to be careful not to assume how other people will feel based on our own feelings. For you or I randomly swearing at people might make us very uncomfortable, but if this woman has lived with it all her life it's possibly all she's ever known, and therefore she has two choices:

Either she let it take over her life, and avoid contact with people who will judge.

Or she accepts herself the way she is and gets on with her life, including taking on a job working with the public.

It's her life, it's up to her to live it the way she feels comfortable with, not how other people think it should be.

the good thing about this thread for me is that if i ever am served by someone in m and s who has tourette's, you lot have done all my liberal angsting for me. i think it's been really interesting. am particularly proud of marks for having such an enlightened policy, even if their customers struggle to be so enlightened sometimes. me included.

very wise words there wannabe...you are right...so easily done to make assumptions...but the way you put it...you definitely have got a very good point there...

Me too Aitch. And the good thing about swearing in M&S is that you can always take it back.

Mwah-hahahaahahaaah. vg. tick.

it's not just swearing.

very true aitch....

I think all in all this thread has been a really good and mostly educating/enlightening thread...

sorry I havent read all the thread
and I would not feel at ease making a comment on this subject that would cause offense
does anyone who has experience of tourettes tell me whether medication works or may suppress the symptoms?

crankycrane,
I have never tried medication. There are bullitn boards on the web where people with tourettes could answer your questions better.

I suppose it depends on how tics affect someone's life and the severity. For me the tics are slightly odd, but don't affect my life functioning. I am happily married and I work full time.

However it would be silly to take medication that dulls the intellect just because my hands shake a bit. I imagine though that someone with uncontrollable swearing might find that the advantages outweigh the side affects.

This might answer your questions

www.tourettes-action.org.uk/frequently-asked-questions/

Onager 'I have to wonder how those people who screamed at me then will reconcile their "it's always offensive if someone is offended" policy with this thread.'

i was one of those you offended and no I wouldn't be offended because as mentioned numerous times on here, it is pretty obvious when someone is saying something because they have tourettes or because they are being obusive. You on the otherhand have choosen to use words that others find offensive and have done for decades now.

I don't think it's unreasonable at all to be shocked by hearing swear words in a situation like that, you weren't expecting it and therefore you were shocked, there's nothing much you can do about a simple reaction like that. It is very unusual to be sworn at in such a way.

However, I think it's great that she is working in a shop serving customers, it's a great opportunity for your kids to learn about Tourette's, and it's a great opportunity for the woman to be working in an ordinary job regardless of the Tourette's - much better than being stuck out back doing filing or whatever.

I wonder how she feels about the swearing, and the shocked reactions of the customers? About the lack of eye contact, the quick shuffling out of the door? It must be far more challenging for her to be working there than it was for you to here two swear words in the company of your children.

We can't protect children from swearing anywhere, in the street or in the playground or on the TV. It's everywhere, it's life, best to start the children's education about swearing and why it's not good when they're young, make it less of a taboo and they will find it less enticing.

Oh whoops sorry I posted my message to the OP, didn't realise this was a 500+ reply thread!! Ignore me and my outdated comments... I shall let the current debate continue!

actually megnog, yours is a rather decent summary of the prevailing view.

Racmac-you must live in the west mids cos the M&S in the town where I work has a sales assistant with tourettes.

I've not read all the replies (it'd take too long!) but I gathered you may have slightly altered you position.

I would have no problem taking my child to be served by the lady in my local store (I'd perfer her than a stroppy salesperson anyday)-even small children will accept that she swears cos she is 'poorly' and although might try a few words insisting they are also poorly-kids do forget quite quickly(fingers crossed).

The lady I am aware of was as discreet as her disability allowed.