to not allow ds2 to have mmr jab?

[TheLadyEvenstar]

I don't think I am, after ds1 had it i noticed a major difference in his behaviour and don't want to go through it again,

There isn't mercury in the MMR

There has been mercury in most of the others and in flu jabs unttil the increasing demand to have it removed in very recent years.

Because it exists naturally does not mean it is a good idea to repeadely jab it into tiny babalies. But then the other shite in many of the vaccines probably isn't terribly genius either.

Is it just me or would it have been a good idea to proceed on the basis that the ingredients should ideally be harmless rather than sticking in any old shite and then not thinking about it for several decades

see - if you jab it into babies they grow up unable to spell or type

Cyberseraphim, I've seen very little speculation on this thread. Jimjams, pagwatch and others have shared their extensive knowledge of this subject with enormous patience, and with far more intelligent explanations of the relevant research than we have been getting in the press.

I have only seen one vaccination-sceptic post containing bad information (Pushkar's). I'm not sure why you feel the need to be sarcastic about this, especially when you know that you are discussing this with parents of damaged children.

Have not read whole thread sorry,but have not had dd2 or 3 immunised with MMR,dd2 had such a bad reaction to her first lot of baby jabs,vomiting,tremors etc that couldnt bring myself to give her the MMr.She is 10 now and last yr after pressure from Health Visitor she had a hib etc booster,she promptly vomited,fainted had a high temp for a week and a huge swelling appeared on site of injection that took 3 months to disappear.
DD3 has had all her baby ones but on injection sites her pigment has gone and she has big white patchs instead of skin colour.
I do want to get them vaccinated,am considering doing the single jabs but dont know where to go for them,we live near Brighton.
DD1 had MMR and she was fine, just not sure what to do now,i believe its a personal choice and i think NHS should offer single jabs,lots more people would have their kids done,which is surely the point in the long run.I know it takes longer to be fully covered but surely thats better than no jabs at all?

The food standards agency was advising pregnant women not to eat more than one portion of tuna a week before thimerosal was removed from the DTP. That doesn't make any sense at all. Thimerosal was removed from paediatric jabs in Australia and the US about 5 years before the UK.

The thing about thimerosal is it doesn't need to be there- but it costs $1 a shot more to produce a thimerosal free vaccination. I would have happily paid $1 to have not given ds1 thimerosal containing jabs.

Likewise there is an alternative to MMR- single jabs. I don't know why politically there is such a lot of pressure to not explore the safest options. I genuinely don't understand why suggesting that exploring the safety of giving jabs in different ways is so controversial (well I do having discovered the USA saves $60 billion a year using MMR rather than monovalent jabs).

Totallyfloaty - that sounds a nightmare. I say it to everyone but I'd go and talk it through with Dr Halvorsen.

One thing that needs some discussion is if there are suggested links between MMR and autism why is the Pharmaceutical company responsible for manufacturing the MMR jab not withdrawing its product?

Most pharmacetical companies withdraw their product like a shot these days if there is a whiff of scandal whether the proof is there or not because of the potential loss of confidence the drug company suffers as a result. This did happen with one type of MMR in the 1990s over the Urabe strain and meningitis links.

The pharma companies didn't withdraw that brand of MMR (a brand which incidentally seems to have been associated with more cases of autistic regression, and with worse regression - google brand specific effect autism MMR and you might get some details), the health authorities in various companies had to act.

Every time I think I'm making a decision, someone posts something that changes my mind.

Think it's time to step away.

I have found it to be quite often the case that all the vaccine causition theories are conflated together. Heavy metal damage has been mentioned in this thead although this aspect is not touched upon in the UK based MMR causition theory. However to change to a serious question, Is there a link to any statement made by Dr Wakefield in response to his researcher's testimony (Nick Chadwick) in a US court that he ( Wakefield) had been specifically informed that the lab test results were inconsistent with speculation about MMR/ autism causition ? I'm assuming he disputes the results but does Dr Wakefield also contest that he was told about the negative results at all? (The MMR hypotheses rested on his assertion that the results for measles in the guts of children had been positive.)

a comment from Wakefield which mentions Nick Chadwick's work.

cyberseraphim - re "Homeopathic principles can easily turn 0% into 100%"

Huh?

What is the purpose of introducing homeopathy into this thread, which has hitherto relied on scientific research? Surely you realize that homeopathy is a fantasy and that the so-called "homeopathic principles" are a joke. That there is no proof whatsoever that any of it is true, neither that it works.

You said you were "offered" a diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome. Did the doctor (?) who offered that diagnosis know that you have a tendency to believe things without proof nor any scientific explanation?

There is a $ 1 million award out for anyone who can prove evidence that homeopathy works. If you feel there is proof that homeopathy is effective, contact that guy and make a million. If not, well, let's not talk about homeopathy and its funny "principles".

I don't believe homeopathy works. Oh my goodness, we agree. !!! I have seen that site - but to be fair to homeopathists, you have to prove it to his satisfaction and he is as sceptical as me so I think the milliion dollars is safe.

cote I think she means that never mind that there is no thimerosal in MMR we (including those who watched a regression following MMR) are so stupid that we might imagine that thimerosal be implicated even though it wasn't in MMR.

There is some evidence that autistic children are less able to excrete heavy metals. And although many of the 'autism is a gift' group won't believe it the NHS will even perform chelation (I know because my friend's dd was chelated on the NHS - she had 'should have been dead' lead levels).

Hanging onto heavy metals rather than excreting them is never the best move, although their effects may be complex and are (like most things immunological/biomedical to do with autism) poorly understood.

Although of course a separate consideration than the MMR.

Completely agree with everything said about mercury. Of course we ingest it in every day life, which is surely all the more reason not to compound the effect by injecting it into people when it doesn't need to be there! I think it makes no sense how all the way through a pregnancy we are told not to eat this, not to eat that and then as soon as the baby is born we're giving vaccinations I'm pregnant now and I don't eat tuna at all and will not have the routine anti-d shots.

I don't think anyone on this thread is stupid but there are US sites which continue to discuss thimersol related damage from vaccines which don't contain thimersol.

cyberseraphim - Good! Supporters of homeopathy and astrology always get me all worked up.

One last thing, though:

"to be fair to homeopathists, you have to prove it to his satisfaction"

You have to prove it scientifically, in a double blind test. He doesn't have subjective criteria of his own to satisfy. It would be easy enough to do if the "remedies" actually worked.

Why are you alluding to US sites though?

Good Point ! It''s not 'Momsnet' after all.

Well maybe you are from the US - all well and good, but perhaps you could refrain from making reference to irrelevant information as it's quite useless.

Where do you live Marla? Ds went to a place in Eltham, South East London. I think I googled singles vaccines in London.

i've been following the thread but haven't posted as my ds isn't old enough to receive the jab. definitely have been considering how i will deal with this massive decision when he's older as well.

ladylush i think that making reference to us sites isn't that much a bad thing. if i remember correctly (anyone please speak up if this isn't true anymore...) both countries are using the same pharmaceutical companies to manufacture the vaccines. besides there are issues on both sides of the atlantic concerning the MMR-II that people are worried about. it's not just an issue here.

CornBread

I don't actually have much of an issue with people raising points from US sites.
What I don't appreciate is sarcasm which it then turns out is not actually aimed at anything that anyone has said on this thread but instead references views expressed on US sites..
Just a cheap shot really