to not allow ds2 to have mmr jab?

[TheLadyEvenstar]

I don't think I am, after ds1 had it i noticed a major difference in his behaviour and don't want to go through it again,

Marla- I personally would prefer to use a doctor than a clinic interested in jabbing as many as possible. Sometimes the clinics give them very close together.

My favourite is (as you can probably guess) Dr Richard Halvorsen as vaccinations are a specialist interest of his and he will consider each child individually.

There was a Dr Seyedi in Surrey who used to do them. He's a private GP and was good.

There also used to be a paediatrician in Great Portland Steeet who used to do them. Presume he's still there.

Also Breakspear hospital.

All these are south east (I'm in south west but haven't found anyone I would go to closer).

Cornbread - exactly what pagwatch said.

Jimjams - I used a clinic as I knew I only wanted the measles jab (with booster next year), but I agree that if Marla wants info and advice as well she is better off seeing a doctor like Halvorsen. His book might be a good starting point. Lol at dating agencies Marla Maybe google the county (? Berkshire)

DS went to eMed clinicat St Johns & Elizabeth Hospital in St Johns Wood.

Good clinic and right near tube station

Marla - have a look at www.dh2.co.uk - they have a clinic in Reading. I got that info from the JABS website.

Just been reading this link which was referenced in a link previously posted on this thread... briandeer.com/wakefield/private-eye.htm

Just thought I'd throw it in as I think Wakefield is getting a bit too much +ve spin here!

I've found this thread quite illuminating re children with immunological problems and digestive disorders. I still personally believe that the risks for children without these issues are probably less from MMR than from the diseases. Harking back to the Russian roulette analogy, the choice isn't so much to pull a trigger of a gun containing MMR or not, it's a choice between the MMR gun or the disease gun. There isn't a no gun option, which is exactly why this issue is so difficult for parents and so emotive.

It's given me lots to think about!

Brian Deer is not really reliable. I wrote to him and asked why he was suggesting that Wakefield was developing a rival vaccine when the patent application made it clear Wakefield was developing a treatment - he didn't reply.

Lots here about Brian Deer

This is from the GMC hearing (again Cry Shame)- reporting on evidence from Richard Horton (no fan of Wakefields)

"The point at which my ignorant dislike of Horton unravelled was when he described, how, on addressing Deer?s complaints against Wakefield, presented at the Lancet, he immediate said, ?this has to be investigated?, and began to plan evidence gathering trips to the Royal Free to question Wakefield and his colleagues. According to Horton, Deer collapsed in the face of proper investigation and pleaded with him not to pursue this approach. Not long after this, Horton told the hearing, ?I fell out with Mr Deer?.

According to Horton, his enquiry into Deer?s allegations left him sure that at least one of the most serious was completely fictitious."

This article, while it is from the Express , does have some valid and useful points to make. The initial MMR, using the Urabe strain of mumps vaccine, did cause brain inflammation and was introduced in the UK despite the fact that Canada had already flagged the problem. It was some years later that the Urabe strain MMR vaccine was withdrawn, too late for some.

It is unutterably naive to assume that pharmaceutical companies will withdraw products that "might" have problems - look how long it took for them to agree to withdraw Celebrex and Vioxx, and they are both back out there again now.
There is a simple antidote to paracetamol-induced liver poisoning that they refuse to add to paracetamol because of cost.
The Urabe-strain MMR vaccines, once discontinued here, were sent to South America for use there.
They know that statins can cause loss of coenzyme Q10, necessary for proper muscle function (including and especially heart muscle) and yet they won't add CoQ10 into the statins because of cost.
Make no mistake, these drugs cost a huge amount to develop, the pharma companies will wring every available penny from them, regardless of health outcomes.

jimjams - don't know if you already know about this conference, organised by treatingautism.co.uk. It might be of interest to you, it might not, but I thought I would offer it up anyway.

I'm not American but have no objection to freedom of discussion about autism causition theories whether they may be 'useless' or imaginary in origin as these are what fuel concerns about immuniisation. Humour can be misinterpreted so I'm hoping I've misinterpreted the earlier remarks about autistic children being 'damaged' children or that autism is preferable only to death. In retrospect, they may only have been black humour intended to cheer us up but possibly not the best way of doing it. As for the mercurial doctor himself, Dr W. (US resident but still relevant) , I am still not sure if he has made any statement about his own beliefs abut his own honesty - Does he or does he not accept that he was told there were no positive results from his tests ? He may well have fantasised about future different results but how did react at the time ? The OP has made her mind up to go with the risks of singles rather than the risks of the MMR and it's not unreasonable to have your own opinion whatever might be,

Well he says he published the negative data wrt to crohns. So should be easy enough to check that.

The GMC trial does appear to be finding that Wakefield always acted honestly.

I think my son is damaged. I don't know of any other condition where someone would suggest that someone who wants to talk but is totally unable to is anything other than brain damaged. How else would you describe someone who at 9 years of age only understands nouns? Recognising that he has some brain damage doesn't mean I value him any less. It just means we're tuned into reality.

I met an adult with aphasia last week - he described himself as brain damaged - and he massively streets ahead of ds1.

"There is a simple antidote to paracetamol-induced liver poisoning that they refuse to add to paracetamol because of cost." I am shocked by that.

People usually have no problem suggesting that someone with CP has some brain damage, so I don't know why it's so controversial with autism. Severe autism is nothing like AS. The sooner they separate out the diagnosis the better so those of us who are dealing with severely affected children can get on and help them without being guilted by people who do live independently and do all the things we would wish for our children.

I don't find the notion that my sons brain was damaged by various things including vaccines even vaguely amusing.
Nor am I clear why I should lie about what happened to him because others don't like the term. Would 'altered' be more appropriate.
As he regressed and lost most skills what would be a more apt description?
But not really happy to be lectured about humour by someone who makes breast feeding and Michael Jackson jokes to belittle posters here.

Equally posting that theories re vaccine damage are either
" 'useless' or imaginary in origin "
is not going to convince me that you are posting with any intent other than to disparage and offend

pagwatch- have you seen the NAS's information page on autism - what is it? According to the NAS people who are non-verbal usually understand everything that is said to them but prefer to use symbols or sign language rather than speech.

I wrote to complain. Pointed out that most who are non-verbal either have severe apraxia, or severe language problems or both. No reply, so I think I'll have to write to Communication to complain.

The myth that severely affected individuals are living an autistic life of their choosing is damaging in the extreme.

The humourous remarks were aimed at theories ( now ruled out on the grounds of US origin) not children with learning difficulties - but I personally do not really care how people describe DS1 - they could call him a 'simpleton' or a 'retard' or a 'brain damaged sub human moron' if it would get him the therapy and education that he needs.

for those claiming that there is no poven medical evidence to say that the mmr can change behaviour/trigger autism...
what about acupuncture? you can't tell me that it doesn't work because there is no proven medical evidence. I KNOW it works. A billion chinese people can't be wrong. just like so many others KNOW that the mmr has damaged their child.
The single vaccine is not considered 'safe' either.

it's all about the money hunny.

jimjam
I was very lucky that DS2 was really quickly dignosed as having verbal apraxia by his nursery teacher.
His previous nursery had managed to make him a violent ball of frustration by trying to get him to say 'drink' before they would let him have a drink etc etc when he was actually incapeable of saying it.
They said he was choosing not to. Poor little bugger.
His speech has come on hugely but remains so frustrating for him.

I get too annoyed with the NAS to use them as a resource tbh.

Perhaps you should write again using symbols..

For interest as the case was mentioned above...

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/gloucestershire/7765512.stm

excellent post pagwatch

The 08:42 post

Surely it's a question of working out the odds?

Does anyone know how the percetage of kids who are at risk from serious injury or death by measles? Infertility by mumps? Compared to the percentage at risk from MMR?

Weigh up the odds. What is more likely to harm your child?

Well that depends on your individual child doesn't it?

.

Monkey why not ask us parents whose children have already been affected by the MMR if we are willing to take the risk with another child........ I know I won't be.