to not allow ds2 to have mmr jab?

[TheLadyEvenstar]

I don't think I am, after ds1 had it i noticed a major difference in his behaviour and don't want to go through it again,

Yes, that's what I remember reading when L was a baby - that the UK had decided to continue with it despite the WHO recommending not to, and at the time I was pregnant with dd2 and realised I would have to pay to get thimerosal free for her if I decided for her to have the baby vaccines.

bit of on a tangent...but WHO also recommended delaying weaning a Baby till 6 month old , years and years and years before the UK changed their advice to it....reason was, that UK had to wait for the longer Maternity Leave to come thorugh, before changing their advice re weaning age ....

So, yes, Politics, etc...do have a large influence on which advice is given, etc...

I can't stop watching this thread.

I didn't realise that at the SAME time as the MMR my DS will also be offered the Pneumococcal! So 4 different virus to deal with!

My husband thinks we should space the two jabs out, by how long would be enough?

I'm more tempted to have the Pneumococcal first then go for the MMR later.

How long could you wait for to give the MMR? I can't find a great deal of information on when children are most at 'risk' of coming into contact with MMR. I also read so many conflicting reports on just how serious catching MMR can be???

Perhaps this link will clarify the evidence of why vaccines are better given together as opposed to spaced.
www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publichealth/Healthprotection/Immunisation/Greenbook/DH_4097254 Go to the measles vaccine bit if the link doesn't go straight there. Its about the type of vaccine.

I was once concerned about MMR purely because of reactions in Gulf War Veterans i.e. Gulf War Syndrome. However, wider reading both on Autism and MMR from lots of different sources has changed my mind. Service personel are subjected to lots of vaccines during basic training and rarely have a reaction. Many of the soldiers were exposed to ridiculous amounts of vaccine i.e. up to 8-10 in one day including Anthrax and Yellow fever.

I just want to thank you all for your thoughts on this thread. I have found it absolutely fascinating (and painful at times) to read of your experiences and opinions on this issue.

I fully admit to having previously been of the opinion that those who were concerned about the MMR were misinformed/mistaken/hysterical but I stand absolutely corrected on that.

From the arguments presented so eloquently here, I now believe that the MMR can be risky for a small number of children and I also now understand far better what the Wakefield study was (and wasn't) investigating.

My DD (now 3) had the MMR and I didn't think twice about it. DS is 8 months and I will be giving some serious thought to whether he will receive the MMR or go for single jabs. We have no autism in the family, no allergies and no autoimmune disease, as far as I know, but I am beginning to think that I'd be prepared to pay the price of the single jabs to be absolutely sure we avoid the risk of any adverse reactions.

But there is still so much I don't understand. Surely there is risk of some sort of vaccine damage from the single jabs too? If so, what? I presume there is little or no evidence of regression after single jabs being given, since parents who are worried about the MMR/Autism link seem to be generally happier with this option.

Thanks again to you all for your insight and reasoned discussion. I really have learnt a lot here.

mytether- i cannot see what you are talking about.

If you're looking at the graph where the incidence of measles drops with introduction of the MMR as opposed to the single measles jab, that's nothing to do with efficacy. The single measles jab was never part of the standard vaccination schedule and so take up was low. With low take up of course people continued to get measles at high rates.

I had measles when I was 8 in 1979. Incidentally after I was over the worst but still had to stay off school I was sent to my friend's house to play whilst my Mum went to work as my friend was off school with whooping cough. Life went on as normal and we still talk about time quite a lot (it was actually lots of fun - I also remember my friend's Mum taking us into the local town and me reaching up to a food counter and her mum shouting 'oh for goodness sake et your hands off there you've got measles' and the shop worker and my frend's Mum rolling their eyes at each other. A tangent, but perhaps a good example of how public perception of measles has changed. I can imagine someone shouting 'for goodness sake you've got measles' in a crowded shop now would cause mass hysteria.

But tether- had single measles vaccination been introduced as a compulsory vaccination then the drop you saw in the graph with MMR would have come with the single jab.

Gulf war vets and some autistic kids share the same markers in their urine incidentally. DS1 and ds3 have those markers. It's believed to reflect the health of the gut.

Olifin- yes of course some children are vaccine damaged after the measles jab. I know an adult who is very severely disabled as a result of it (she received compensation - one of the few, it's not disputed). That's why I haven't given single measles jab yet to ds2 or ds3. I will give it to ds2 before he hits puberty (when measles becomes more dangerous) as he doesn't seem to have any of the family traits that are worrying. Not sure about ds3.

Wakefiled's work was on atypical measles exposure (from natural infection) to begin with (and crohns disease). His belief is that MMR may represent an atypical exposure, which the single jabs may not.

Remember according to the paper I linked to above giving MMR rather than single measles saves the USA $60 million dollars a year. In the USA vaccine damage compensation is funded by the drugs companies, in the UK they just do their best to make sure no-one gets it.

INcidentally - in the US the system used to be (not sure it still is) that for each shot given the vaccine companies paid a certain amount into a central fund which was used to fund compensation claims. The more 'dangerous' the vaccine the more the company had to pay per shot. DT was very cheap DTP was very much more expensive, MMR was expensive. I suspect looking at the amounts per shot is a pretty good way of assessing the relative safety of different jabs.

Jimjams that's interesting re. compensation and cost of jabs.

Olifin - glad the thread has given you food for thought. I have learned a lot too.

Cote - thanks for tip. Will have a look

electra - yes I was shocked when I started reading about the DTP with mercury. Ds was due to have it in August 2004, but I delayed it til October that year when the new one minus mercury was introduced. Got a lot of stick from the health visitor and gp but didn't care. My baby, my choice.

Halvorsen says many vaccines needlessly contain aluminium. High time the NHS and DoH started acting more responsibly.

I was adamant that my daughter 15 months wasn't having the MMR and she hasn't BUT I have given her the single vaccine for measles and she will have the rest as singles to.

I wouldn't forgive myself is she got a illness because I didn't allow her to have vaccinations.

Have you thought about singles?

I gave DD the single measles vaccine. Mumps and rubella are not really dangerous in childhood, and lifetime immunity after the actual disease is much better than the fickle immunity (if any is even gained) from vaccines.

Cote I will give ds2 the measles on but not just yet.....atm he has very little contact with other children other than ds1 and 2 nephews and they have all had the MMR.

I wish I had not given ds1 it but while i cannot change the past..I sure as hell can be cautious about the future.

ds was nearly 4 when he had the measles jab (single). I dithered and dithered, read and read.........and eventually committed to going through with it.

Completely agree, Cote.

They'll be claiming chicken pox is a big killer next when that vaccine comes into full effect.

Cote I did read something on the extreme male brain. Interesting that boys brains grow much faster. You'd never know would you

lmao Lady...yes but the growth stops at about 7 doesn't it? cos thats what age men act when they get the hump.....or male pmt

A father of a child at my children's nursery died of chicken pox,he was perfectly healthy before that.
Also a 6 year in my DS's class had a stroke after chicken pox. He was paralized all down the left side, but he did regain the use. There is a very high connection between childhood strokes and chicken pox.
Also the day before my son's spots came out we bumped into some friends in tesco. The little girl had leukhemia. She would have died if she caught chicken pox. We told her as soon as we found out and she had to go straight to Great Ormand Street for a chicken pox vaccination. Unfortunately it only lasts 2 weeks and it was the 4th time she had had to have it. I would have been heart broken if my son's cp had killed her. Chicken pox is also dangerous in the womb for the first 3 months and the last few days before birth for babies.
The problem is we now live a world where these diseases are a distant memory and people just don't realise the impact they had on people.

Lol TLES

thimerolsol has been the main thing in the mmr, which contains high levels of mercury, if you want to learn about children who have allergy related autism there is a uk site called just that, otherwize look up autism research institute at www.autism.com and see what they have to say about innoculations, there is a growing epidemic in autism and neuro
logical disorders, think wisely before jumping into any innoculations , it can take years to reverse through biomedical treatment, don't be pushed by anyone, please please research for yourself, goog luck...there is now more than 160 children in every 1000 caught up in neurological disfunctions,rapidly on the rise in the uk....

and yet the pharmaceutical info is that MMR does not and never did contain thimerosal (or thiomersal, depending on which country you are in).NHS policy now is that all children's vaccines are thimerosal-free, and have been since 2004, with the possible exception of a Hep B vaccine (not routinely given).

Goldilocks, my DS had a slight reaction to his first 2 PCV vaccines - I will not be letting him have the MMR anywhere near any other vaccines, if at all. I will wait until he is at least 18mo before deciding.

I think I was lucky that I decided to research the MMR before DS had it. He is in an 'at-risk' group as, as I stated before my sis has bad Crohns and she has had a hard adult life and has been unable to have children (yet!). I am really sorry to those whose children have been affected by it.

It is terribly unfair that people, especially those that in are in underrepresented, minority groups, are led to believe that EVERYONE should have the MMR as it is the done thing and will be the best for their children.

I still feel bad about letting DS have his TB vaccination the day he was born. I didn't have a clue, he was my first and i thought that was what was best, the paed said he needed it as there had been a recent outbreak in W London (where we lived at the time). The poor kid had just been born and I let them pump my new perfect baby full of TB.

I would never allow that now.

But surely it does not matter that there is no thimerosal in the vaccination? Homeopathic principles can easily turn 0% into 100% ? Also it is the same NHS that does not warn mothers about the high levels of mercury in breastmilk . They even encourage us to do it . Please write to the queen, prime minister, dalai lama, michael jackson, entire cast of neighbours etc and get this stopped now !

As far as I know MMR does not contain mercury....it was the DTP given to babies. When it was changed to the 5 in 1 they had supposedly taken the mercury out, but we were told that change was purely coincidental and the change was all to do with oral polio being phase out . But this was after a study in the US which showed a link between mercury in vaccines and autism.

Of course people ingest small amounts of mersury in modern life - especially in tuna etc.

But having it crammed into many ofthe vaccines is not really terribly helpful is it - especially when it does not actually have any need to be there.

For what its worth when my son was checked out he had really really high levels of aluminium - which isn't very helpful either and are stuck in most vaccines too.
But hey. Perhaps I should be finding that joke worthy..

MMR does not contain mercury. Never has.

I don't think there is mercury in the MMR but often the 'something about the vaxx but we don't know what' threads conflate the speculation. Most mercury comes from the atmosphere as a result of volcanic eruptions.