to not allow ds2 to have mmr jab?

[TheLadyEvenstar]

I don't think I am, after ds1 had it i noticed a major difference in his behaviour and don't want to go through it again,

ladylush - The TB vax is now given to newborns but subject to postcode lottery so it depends on the level of disease where you live.

Here is an interesting article in the telegraph. Although it says there was just one death in London, it also suggests that single vaccines used previously were less effective at erradicating these diseases compared to MMR. Although I obviously wouldn't take this as potentially more than propaganda since the source has an invested interest. It says before MMR there were 12 deaths from 100,000 cases and in 2006 and 2008 there was 1 death each year. Coverage is only at 72% and needs to be at 95% to irradicate the diseases.

oops! here!www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2164002/Teenager-dies-of-measles-as-cases-of-disease-rise.html

Evenstar- I checked those figures recently and found that the hospitalisation rate of 10% didn't make much sense this is an interesting paper on hospitalisations in Italy- notice how many more there are in the poor south compared to the wealthier north. The link to the netherlands data gives a hospitalisation rate of 4%.

The death rate is all wrong too. In 1980, there were 139,487 cases of measles with 26 deaths, nowhere near the 1 in 2000 that seems to be quoted a lot at the moment.

And in 1989 the UK dept of health was saying that 1 in 5000 cases of measles would lead to encephalitis. So they've upped that rate as well.

Now this is interesting Using MMR rather than single antigens saves the USA $60 million a year.

Hmm no political pressure there then for using MMR..... hmm

Actually there is some stuff on a particular immigrant population which is seeing extremely high levels of regressive autism.

It is the Somalian community in Minnesota.

Rates of autism have been documented as as high as 1 child in 28 in this particular community.

These people are highly vaccinated and generally deficient in vitamin D.

On top of the ruling compensating Hannah Poling for developing autism as a result of vaccination (in the US), this is not good news for those who want to defend MMR at all costs.

That story is very interesting. Especially:

"Meanwhile, none of the refugees that I surveyed had ever heard of autism back in Somalia, where there isn't even a name for the disorder."

and

"Refugees were given about a year or so of free medical and dental care, and special effort was made to ensure full compliance with the childhood vaccine schedule (though many mothers failed to keep well-baby visits, requiring lots of "catch up" vaccinations when they did bring their children in to the pediatrician)"

ladylush, totally agree with your summary. I didn't hesitate to give ds1 the MMR, but now he has developed ASD like symptoms I am having to really consider what I do about ds2. I don't think the OP is at all unreasonable given her circumstances.

And I think this quote from the above link to thr Somalian autism story says it all really;

"Its really simple. If there is proof that vaccines do not cause Autism then we would see thousands of websites where lists upon lists of stories about Autistic children who were NEVER vaccinated could be found

But there is not a single article, website, peer-reviewed study, paper, book or anything else listing these children's stories is there?

It's not rocket science! I've been at this for over 12 years and have read story after story after story that is almost identical - baby is normal, baby gets vaccine, baby is never normal again. If I read just half that many stories of babies who suddenly became Autistic and never had the shots, then I might give up the fight...I imagine many of us would."

Sorry to hear about ds Kettlechip. Is it severe ASD? I must say (with no basis other than observation - personal and professional) I do wonder if it is more common in boys. I wonder if any research has been done.

The blonde - I was actually being sarcastic. Yet another vaccination for babies. Is it necessary I wonder. Why don't we reintroduce BCG for teenagers? Sorry - not questions I expect you to answer

Who knows whether there's a link with MMR and autism. My neighbour swears her 4 year old son (severely autistic) was a bright, animated, chatty toddler before MMR. He literally woke up the following day and had stopped speaking, made no eye contact and stopped giving cuddles. Conventional medicine is all for immunisations for a reason - to obviously prevent any outbreaks, and that's a good thing, but at what cost? I was so confused about what to do but wasn't willing to take any risks so chose to give my DS single jabs. He's had measles so far and is due for mumps next week. Very happy with my choice. My GP and health visitor were very unsupportive, which was disappointing. There's lots of research going on all over the world about this. Don't always believe what's rammed down our throats by the NHS.

www.wddty.com/03363800371486092368/mmr-and-autism-the-link-really-has-been-establishe d.html

ASD is indeed more common in boys than girls.

Thanks Cote - I briefly googled it but could only find ASD, boys and MMR rather than incidence of ASD in boys.

Wolfear - I certainly agree with you. And I actually work for them!

Google autism and "extreme male brain" theory. It's very interesting.

Jimjams, could you try the "hmm" link again?
Thanks very much

It seems to be to do with hormone levels, in particular the way testosterone effects toxic metal elimination/poisoning.

Am busy with a sick (vaccine damaged and don't we know it) DD at the mo but will post link if find time.

Or, do a google search, put your thinking cap on, stop swallowing the patronising shite from the NHS and think for yourself.

www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119222358/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

www.mugsy.org/wing.htm

No clear reason has emerged as to why autism rates in immigrant communities is deemed to be higher. Autism rates are consistent across racial groups and cultures - although that assumes that we know what we are calling 'autism'. Some cultures may call it 'spirit possession' or being 'consumed by demons', or even as the great witch doctor himself Freud said 'psychiatric disturbances' caused by the parents . Our culture used to label it as 'mental retardation' or 'imbecility' - but fortunately the incidence of these labels is now running at 0 % due to different labels being used.

Children are called for the MMR at 15 months here, and they're given another one at the same time, the second meningitis I think.

I was in in a terrible state before the MMR was due adn I was adament that ds wasn't going to get it, I'd researched it all and was on the side that the MMR isn't safe for a number of children but we just don't know who those children are until they get the MMR and become damaged in some way.
I was worried sick about it all, but... I gave him the MMR (he had it at 17 months).

In the end, even though I still do believe that the vaccine, like any other vaccine, can be damaging to particular, susceptible children, I felt I had to give him the MMR.

But I can understand the terrible worry you feel whethe rto give it or not, but at the end of day it has to be your choice.

Strangely, as my ds had his MMR in the hospital as has egg allergy, he was due to have the Meningitis jab (which you would normally have at the same time s the MMR) at the doctors but they would only do it 4 weeks after the MMR if they weren't being done at the same time. They didn't say why though. Does anyone know?

Could it be because their children have to squeeze a lot of jabs into a short period of time, when family arrives in Europe?

autism and extreme male brain only really works for high functioning kids. Where it works quite well. I'm not sure that simon baron-cohen has ever come across a severely autistic child!

ASD ratio boys to girls is 4:1

Higher ratios of boys in higher functioning autism, gets slightly more even (although still more boys) in lower functioning.

A locum GP told me 'girls don't get autism you know'. Whilst muttering about what a 'terrible affliction' it was. He was rather ancient but did correct him (politely) about the girl thing.

Jimjams, maybe you ought to direct your GP towards ds's class at school which is a small class for severely autistic children. For most of this year ds has been the only boy!

Gosh that's quite unusual isn't it Pixel. DS1 was in a class of 6 boys all severely autistic. But yes, I know a number of girls with autism. Mind you my friend was told b her GP that her dd couldn't be autistic (she is) because girls don't get it.

The general understanding of autism amongst GP's isn't looking good is it

The NHS runs on guidelines from the Department of Health, who take theirs from the WHO. I am sure that on other threads many people choose to believe what they say about breastfeeding, so why the scepticism about their support of MMR? The NHS have faults but they base care on guidelines from higher agencies, not just plucking things from thin air!

Last time I looked, the WHO supported MMR but the department of health do not run according to the WHO, because if they did they would have taken mercury out of infant DTP vaccines in 2000 along with the US, as the WHO recommended. Instead, they continued with it for another 4/5 years...

Well WHO takes a world view. And of course cheaper vaccination for as many individuals as possible against measles makes sense in a world view.

Still doesn't mean it makes sense for someone whose elder brother regressed following a live virus.

And as cote said, I've watched one child stop talking, lose sounds and develop muscle spasms. I'm not about to do anything that risks watching the same in his brothers when their risk from me not doing anything is low (and yes I know I am taking a different risk).

Gosh did WHO recommend it that much earlier electra? That's terrible.

The UK removed thimerosal years after US and Australia. Apparently thimerosal free jabs cost $1 more per shot.