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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not allow ds2 to have mmr jab?

862 replies

TheLadyEvenstar · 28/11/2008 22:40

I don't think I am, after ds1 had it i noticed a major difference in his behaviour and don't want to go through it again,

OP posts:
WotsThatSkippy · 02/12/2008 17:39

Sorry, CoteD'Azur - that is a complete crock of shit. The risk to children posed by childhood illnesses around the world is HUGE compared to the debatable (some would say non-existent) risk of autism caused by the MMR jab.

This whole debate annoys the hell out of me (and yes, I have reearched it in depth, not just googled it in my lunchbreak...).

Don't have your children immunised - fine. But don't make up fairy stories to justify your choices.

squiffy · 02/12/2008 17:40

pag et al, this isn't my fight, so I'm not going to wade in with my views, when you are expressing your own so well. I just wanted to say I am very on your behalf over some of the insensitive messages coming through.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 02/12/2008 17:46

wotsthat- yes i think we have established that measles can be a killer in populations not previously exposed and those where the children are malnourished (particularly if vitamin A is low).

I suspect if I had a malnourished child I would probably opt for the MMR if that was all that was being offered. I don't though.

Although even people in developing countries get pissed off by vaccinations that haven't been tested properly here (and if you read Cochrane you'll find that although it recommended the continued use of MMR it also said that its safety trials were inadequate). Another one here. Vaccine damage isn't something that only middle class westerners make a fuss about.

CoteDAzur · 02/12/2008 17:59

cyber -

"risk and probability are statistical terms used to assess whether suppositions have evidence to support them"

No, they are not.

They mean exactly what I said in previous posts. I actually studied this stuff, so please trust me on this. Or research the subject a bit and then come back to discuss.

CoteDAzur · 02/12/2008 18:15

Am I lucky I don't know what blancmange is?

CoteDAzur · 02/12/2008 18:17

WotsThatSkippy - "crock of shit" is your valuable contribution to this debate, then

CilC · 02/12/2008 18:23

YABU and I totally agree with TrillianAstra. There is now a measles epidemic in London and children are dying. Alarmingly it is small babies who have not yet had their jabs that are most at risk.
Children die from these diseases. If you are against the MMR please get the single doses at the very least.
Those who have been alarmed by reports (which have all been proven false) I really hope you do not learn the hard way - there was a reason for the vaccine being developed and given to all children.

squiffy · 02/12/2008 18:31

so Cilc. Children are dying in the current UK epidemic are they? And you think the others are talking bollocks?

CoteDAzur · 02/12/2008 18:33

How terrible! Who are these children dying from measles in London?

Funny none of it was reported anywhere.

motherinferior · 02/12/2008 18:35

A child at my daughters' school could, quite feasibly, die if infected; she has severely compromised immunity because she is having chemotherapy for her leukaemia.

CoteDAzur · 02/12/2008 18:41

You do realize that she could also die from a variety of other diseases if her immune system is so shattered? Very sad for her, of course.

Has she had stem cell therapy at all?

pagwatch · 02/12/2008 18:44

mother
There is a girl at school with my daughter who is also undergoing chemo.
As soon as I found out I contactedthe school to check their concerns re vaccination ( as DD has not been vaccinated)

The mothers advice, the schools advice andthe girls consultants advice is all that there is no additional risk .And that i should take usual precautions with DD - keeping her home if there is any chance she is contaigious.

TheBlonde · 02/12/2008 18:47

Yes there have been cases of measles in London this year but no deaths so far that I've heard about

CilC · 02/12/2008 18:51

5 children died from measles this year in London. That does not include all of the other complications etc. It was reported.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 02/12/2008 18:51

Which children are dying?

As I have already said on this thread the vaccination rate is the same now as it was when the dept of health told me that there were no problems with the MMR vaccination rate, and it was at a level that was not putting the population at risk and I was quite mistaken to think that way.

So if there is a measles outbreak (and its not that surprising that measles cases have increased- it's cyclical - it's always done that) then according to the info the dept of health gave me it can't due to the vaccination rate.

TheBlonde · 02/12/2008 18:53

stats for previous years

CilC - let's see some reports then please

ladylush · 02/12/2008 19:16

In summary:
No one is saying that MMR should not be given at all. Various posters are saying that they would not vaccinate their child or would choose singles due to bloody good reasons such as;

  1. one of their children obviously regressed following administration of MMR (developed Autism or experienced permanent behavioural changes)and understandably they don't want to risk this with another child.
  2. There is a family history of auto-immune disease for e.g. Diabetes, Thyroid disease, Lupus or gut problems such as leaky gut, Crohns Disease etc. These babies are at higher risk of being damaged by vaccines. This is how I interpret it.....please do feel free to add to/edit.

There will be parents for whom neither 1 or 2 apply and they simply don't want to take the risk. I suspect most of them would opt for singles (but just a hunch - no scientific data). FWIW 2 applies in my case. We have a family history of Lupus, Diabetes, Thyroid disease and digestive problems (ulcers/helicobacter pylori). Ds had terrible colic and reflux as a baby. He also had permanent upper respiratory tract infections. It was hard enough for me to allow the DTP, no way would I have taken him for MMR. I did get the singles Measles jab and will get booster done next year but he will be 5 then. He will have the Mumps before he is 10. He will not have Rubella.

I think it's pretty ignorant and insulting to people like Jimjams and Pagwatch (and even Cote - for whom neither 1 nor 2 apply) who are intelligent and well read to suggest that they are naively misinterpreting research. It is also irritating that people do not take the time to read what is said by those who will not be opting for the MMR and choose to quote research, which in context of the point raised is actually meaningless. Or worse still, completely twist the points raised and in so doing, seek to discredit worthy debate.

Original poster
TheLadyEvenstar · 02/12/2008 19:20

By Orangesarenottheonlyfruit on Tue 02-Dec-08 13:45:49
Yes YABU
Please don't compromise everyone's health after reading seriously flawed research.

Orange, I am not compromising anyones health quite the opposite in fact! Walk a mile in my shoes with my son and then tell me its an easy life.
I am not putting ds2 through what ds1 is going through noway no time no where.

By CilC on Tue 02-Dec-08 18:23:24
YABU and I totally agree with TrillianAstra. There is now a measles epidemic in London and children are dying. Alarmingly it is small babies who have not yet had their jabs that are most at risk.
Children die from these diseases. If you are against the MMR please get the single doses at the very least.
Those who have been alarmed by reports (which have all been proven false) I really hope you do not learn the hard way - there was a reason for the vaccine being developed and given to all children.

Cilc,

It is nothing to do with media coverage it is PERSONAL experience that has made my mind up for me.

oh a few stats for those who love them!

Complications of measles:
One in 2,500-5,000: Death
One in 10: Hospital treatment
One in 1,000: Meningitis

OP posts:
stuffitllama · 02/12/2008 19:22

What pagwatch, jimjams, cote and ladylush have said. Basically. It's v late for me but before running I would just like to add an echo to the voices of reason on this thread. The depth of knowledge you guys have is so impressive, especially given the personal cirumstances which must make additional time constraints on your research.

CoteDAzur · 02/12/2008 19:23

I can't find any news of measles deaths in London since 2006 (first death in 14 years), but it seems a healthy boy has died after MMR jab, if anyone is interested.

cyberseraphim · 02/12/2008 19:26

I don't think 5 have died in London from Measles - however in part the problem of low vaccination in London stems from a larger population of immigrant families who do not vaccinate due to living a transient lifestyle with no fixed address/doctor. Interestingly , there is research that shows a statistically significant increase in autism incidence in immigrant communities. But why this should be is unknown - but there is a lack of speculation about vaccination preventing autism.

ladylush · 02/12/2008 19:27

That is shocking. Of course, it is not the nurse's fault but rather the shoddy practice of not screening child/family history.

ladylush · 02/12/2008 19:29

TB is on the rise. Are they still not vaccinating teenagers? Maybe they will add it to the MMR or DTP!

CoteDAzur · 02/12/2008 19:29

I would be interested to see that research that shows autism is increasing in immigrant communities. Please link.

"there is a lack of speculation about vaccination preventing autism"

Sensible.

cyberseraphim · 02/12/2008 19:32

I'll have a look for the source about immigrant communites. I agree with the second point. Vaccination can cause adverse reactions of all sorts but autism is not one of them.