to not allow ds2 to have mmr jab?

[TheLadyEvenstar]

I don't think I am, after ds1 had it i noticed a major difference in his behaviour and don't want to go through it again,

Lady exactly girls should be having it as they always did.

I think you should have the option of mmr or singles on the NHS tbh. Both are available, but because the government is so bloody minded towards proving that there is no prob with the MMR they are giving boys extra vaccines they don't need, and are making more people to choose not to vaccinate at all, or to vaccinate a lot later, therefore causing all the epidemics etc, If they just admitted that the public were not totally in favour and therefore licensed and offered either or, people could make more informed decisions and there would be a much clearer picture as to any potential risks involved with whichever path you took. And it would mean that (hopefully) all children would be immunised.

Agree Paws

Sorry, tis a major bugbear of mine

Hm, I can see the rubella argument here....the problem is, many girls might not be immunised in the future, because the parents chose NOT to give the MMR, they then will also NOT get the Rubella Jab later...because, it isn't generally done, so, unless that parent of that girl is able to get the single rubella jab and remembers to think of it, obviously....so, now this girl is a woman, gets pregnant, and will then find out through bloodtests in pg that, ooops, she isn't immunised against rubella... I mena, come on, I don't know anyone who had bloodtests to determine immunity to things like rubella before they got pg...most women will find out when pg, and by then you can't immunise.
I wonder, if in the future there will be a rise in rubella damaged Babies....

I had my rubella immunity tested before I got pregnant. I did it because as friend had done it before me and advised me to do the same.. It only takes education. If I had daughters I would tell them to do the same. More reliable than assuming a vaccination given years previously is still giving protection.

I suppose...I just trusted that my rubella vaccine would be working...had the bloodtests in pg, obvioulsy...
however, I mentioned it before on this thread....there is only 21 month between ms and ys, and in pg with ms my rubella immunity came back has fine, but in pg with ys it all of a sudden came back as low....certainly didn't expect that...

Some people here seem to think that a mother has equal responsibility towards her baby and some unknown strangers who may or may not be infected from an epidemic to which her baby might in the future contribute or not.

In reality, a mother is responsible of the welfare of her own baby, and will not vaccinate when she perceives the risk of the vaccine to be higher than the risk of the disease.

Seriously, I don't even understand the "But what about the poor pregnant women without immunity?" question. It is not a valid argument because the main issue here (for the parent = the decision maker) is the welfare of the baby. All else is a very distant second. And that is entirely normal.

Check all girls for immunity around age 12-13. Vaccinate those who are not immune. Problem solved. No need to expect the whole world to inject their babies with a pathogen to protect the hypothetical pregnant woman with no rubella immunity.

Cote...I agree that that would be a good way of doing it....

To those who say the government is being bloody-minded/tight etc by providing MMR rather than more expensive single vaccines, may I ask what other part of the NHS you would cut in order to pay for single vaccines? The budget is not infinite: every expenditure requires a cut elsewhere, so what would yours be? In oncology depts? Or geriatrics? Or maybe obs and gynae?

Well the lifetime cost of autism is huge (although not particularly to the NHS- to social care and education), so if MMR is triggering autism in 7% of autism cases then the millions saved per case should be considerable.

DS's lifetime cost to the nation will be 4.6 million (in todays figures). His adult care costs will be something like £200 a day. So even if the numbers affected are very small, the costs saved will be a decent size.

Also the mumps component seems to work slightly better in the single jab than in the MMR, so there will be some savings there. Not many as mumps is very rarely serious so doesn't cost very much.

But, as we've already ascertained from all the available scientific work, based on repeated studies, MMR doesn't cause autism. So there is no saving on the costs of supporting people with autism from transferring to single jabs. So, once again, where would people cut from the NHS budget in order to have single jabs as of right?

And as we've repeatedly said on this thread the studies have shown that MMR is safe for the vast majority of children. They have tested whether its been responsible for the rise in autism. No-one is suggesting it is No-one is suggesting it's not safe for the vast majority of children. No studies have examined whether it has triggered autism in the small (about 7%) of cases that Wakefield et al suspect might be involved.
.

Unless you've got a new study that I don't know about?

Severe autism is expensive enough that even a small number of cases will bring about significant savings.

ahh.
very very happy that I had a hectic weekend with my small brood and didn't have the blood pressure heightening effect ofthis thread to contend with.

My perfectly healthy happy talking eating child had his MMR at 18 months and turned into a violent aggressive, non talking, screaming child within weeks. He has stomach and bowel probelms which are aleiviated when we take out gluten and acsein ( which funnily enough fits with old whacko wakefields theory perfectly.Now usn't that strange )

So if any one thinks that to protect their child I am going to risk the MMR on my perfectly happy, talking, eating daughter they really should go and get their heads examined.

BTW I love that the social responsibility arguement is never followed up with ..." and of course for those children who are damaged by this process there should be compensation and care for their life time".

Society seems to want you to protect their children and if things don't go so welll.....ermmm .... well tough really.

pagwatch, I do think that in cases where damage was done by the mmr, that indeed there also should be help for them.

pagwatch I completely agree. One point I tried to make at the weekend was that the social responsibility argument is void, in part because of the government's unwillingness to accept responsibility for vaccine damage and pay compensation.

But it is a powerful piece of propaganda which has become very entrenched - I remember saying it myself years ago as a young mum as I diligently took my oldest dd for her DTP, before a few things happened which caused me to question mass vaccination and actually think for myself. But there was a time when I naively thought the authorities could only have my child's well being at the top of their agenda -- hmmmmmm. How things have changed.

I agree. Once your child is disabled no-one gives a stuff. nick hornby made that point very well in 2002 -interesting take on MMR/social responsibility argument. And all still valid today

Including the point he makes about no link being disproven - the research is as inconclusive now as it was then.

Kind of off-topic but it has been worrying me all day-has anyone done singles and then an MMR booster? I am so annoyed with my dr bringing it up every time we go, and dd has been so ill this term that I have a huge gut feeling against it, but can't afford single boosters and he won't shut up even if I get immunity tests done. Spoke to a dr friend today, who told me all she knew about vacs, and then added at the end "but if it was my family...."

"what other part of the NHS you would cut in order to pay for single vaccines?"

I propose getting the hell out of Iraq two weeks before the planned date. That would pay for single vaccines and more.

Paws - DD had only measles vaccine, and she will only have a measles booster.

Can you just cross the channel into France and get the single measles booster done here? It costs peanuts.

paws if your gut feeling is so strong I wouldn't ignore it. If she's had the single jab chances are she won't need a booster. Can you have her immunity checked?

cotedazur - do you live in the riviera itself? We have a place in Nice and I have been thinking of getting my two done for measles next time I am in France, but I have no idea if I can just walk in off the street somewhere? Any idea if there are clinics I can book in at?

Yes, I live here. Here, jabs are done by paediatricians who typically follow children from birth.

You could just look up any paediatrician close to your apartment in Nice, phone and ask what you need to bring from the UK for your children to be vaccinated here. If you'd rather not speak French on the telephone, give me the number and I will phone and ask.

Alternatively, our paediatrician's office is in Beausoleil, right above Monaco, about 20 minutes from Nice. She is very good and practically all of Monaco goes to her & her sister. If you don't mind the trajectory, I could give you her contact details.