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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think this is abuse and to put my foot down?

141 replies

hungryhorse · 20/11/2008 10:04

I just want some honest opinions because I honestly dont think I am being unreasonable- and I ddont think close friends are telling me how they really feel... just agreeing with me so as not to upset me.
Ok...
my dd (4) told me that her uncle (10) was in bed with her, got out his "willy" and flicked it at her and then put it on her back.
I think that this is totally and completely wrong and that at the age of 10 this boy new wht he was doing was wrong. He is not an innocent 10 year old and in fact his mum thinks that is funny that he met a 14yr old girlfriend on holiday.
My dd told me this in one continuous sentence, there was no prompting from me such as "and did he do anything else" or "did he touch you with it" So I know she wasn't just saying it because she thought it was what I wanted to hear.

Anyway I told my dd's grandmother ( my dd's uncle's mother) that she wouldn't be allowed to stay over because of what happened. She has never apologised or tried to explain the situation but just insists that her ds didnt do anything wrong as in he was just playing.

I did allow my dd to be near him (always supervised) after because I didnt want to cause arguments and it was really upsetting for my dp... however I was treated badly by the rest of the family as if I was completely out of order for worrying that this incident occured.

Since this, because I do not feel that the family take this seriously and do not trust them to stop this behaviour in the future (as apparently it is not wrong), I have now said I dont want the uncle near my daughter. I havent stopped my dd's grandmother or other dcs from seeing my dd, just this boy.

I dont think I am being unreasonable... in fact I think I could have taken this a lot lot further .

What are your thouhts on my situation?

OP posts:

jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 20/11/2008 14:15

Social stories are designed for children with autism so shouldn't make it worse (although I have heard of them not making the blindest bit of difference ) . There are some online google social stories or social story and carole grey (carol gray?? can never remember her spelling). She's a bit commercial but I have come across a freebie site somewhere. It's always best to take a social story then adapt it to be personal so to be about the child.

If he's doing undesirable stuff because he knows it's undesirable then presumably he's attention or reaction seeking. As always with autism its a case of being firm but very calm. Which is hard.

pokeydot · 20/11/2008 14:17

DS2 is at nursery so already round such influences

but ok wannabe you may be right....but then why does my other DS that is at school not do it? because I as the parent have taught him its not the correct way to act!

wannaBe · 20/11/2008 14:24

how do you know he doesn't? How do you know the boys don't show them off in the toilets?

When I was younger I knew the word 'fuck' was wrong. Didn't stop me using it among my friends though (and I was younger than 10 believe me.) Just because my mum didn't know about it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

dittany · 20/11/2008 14:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MinkyBorage · 20/11/2008 15:12

Yes, but to actually stop the 10 yo seing his neice is going to cause a lot of unnecessary trouble. By all means make sure their meetings are supervised, but do it subtly without making a point.

cory · 20/11/2008 15:35

Inappropriate touching and flashing doesn't have to be a sign of sexual abuse/inappropriateness. Was done to my dd by her friend, a little girl (not all boys, you know!) who later turned out to have Aspergers- this inability to recognise boundaries being one of her main symptoms.

Our response was to allow dd to find a polite excuse not to come to her house for a sleepover but only for a daytime playdate. We felt this was an adequate response. It achieved everything essential without creating any upset.

mumeeee · 20/11/2008 21:50

I agree with wannabee. 10 year olds often do daft and silly things.

lemonstartree · 20/11/2008 22:29

my son ( now 10) but then 9, has behaved inappropriately very like this to my (then) 6 year old niece. Her dad is my brother. This happened when I was babysitting and I had no idea but my niece told by bro and sil when they came home.

we responded as a family. Both I, my dh and my db spoke to my son. not too heavy. but making it clear this was completely inappropriate; we obviously still see them , but we supervise bed time arrangements ( if we or they stay over) very very carefully and the days of 'sneaking' into each others beds are over.
We do this because we are the adults and responsible for ALL the childrens welfare.

my son is being assessed for aspergers

knockedgymnast · 20/11/2008 22:48

I guess my ten year old twins must be innocent then? They would never dream of doing anything like that and the longer they stay like that the better

LittleBella · 20/11/2008 23:15

I don't think it is likely to be abuse but if you genuinely thought it was, then actually you should be reporting to the police because if this 10 year old is abusing, that means that almost definitely he is being abused and you don't just have a duty to your DD, imo we have a duty to all abused children if we know about or strongly suspect their abuse.

However, I think yabu because your MIL is and I kind of don't blame you. If she won't take your concerns seriously, then you can't really deal with her. And I think that's what this is about, not about the 10 year old's (normal though unseemly imo) willy-waving.

Your MIL isn't treating you and your concerns with respect and that may be because your concerns weren't communicated sensibly. If you accused her DS of sexual abuse, a crime for which he could be taken into care, then tbh that would also probably lead to her behaving unreasonably.

In short, it sounds like you two have communicated badly about this.

glitterball · 21/11/2008 00:06

my 10 year old runs around with no clothes on in front of me & other family all the time. he shares a bath with his 7 year old brother most nights & generally some discussion over body parts or functions will ensue. i dont want either of my children to ever feel embarrassed of their bodies; they are still very childlike, and i hope that will continue for some time.

it doesnt sound to me like anything out of the ordinary for a boy that age to do, but as others have said if it concerns you, then just dont let your dd stay over again, and leave it at that. and rise about any comments made by FIL.

nooka · 21/11/2008 01:12

I have a nine and a half year old. He thinks his "dinkle" is hilarious. It seems to be a bit of a phase, as he wasn't so preoccupied when he was younger. He is often naked, and he likes to flash. My dd at 8 likes to do a "bum bum" dance, which is pretty much the equivalent I think. They are completely normal children, and this is completely normal behaviour. SO I certainly wouldn't be worried about that.

Children do get muddled and their stories are not always accurate, but obviously you need to take them seriously when they tell you things that might be worrying.

However I think the OP completely overreacted, because it appears that she didn't talk to the boy, or ask her MIL what might have happened, but immediately said that something really bad happened and that her granddaughter would never stay again. I am not surprised this was received very badly, and that the wider family did not respond well.

However there may well be more to the story, and other issues that the OP hasn't raised. Maybe this boy has been sexualised (I can't see anything that the OP has said that would suggest this, but it may be more of an instinct thing). That would make him a victim in need of help. If one of my nephews behaved inappropriately I would talk to them directly, especially if I thought that there was something seriously wrong. I would of course tell their parents (unless I was worried there was something wrong there too). If the behaviour persisted I would speak to a professional and ask what to do.

I don't understand why you and your partner can't talk to the boy about his behaviour, and say how you would like him to behave in your house - why does it have to be his mum? I would find that very irritating, because essentially you are telling her that she is a bad parent. I really can't imagine a happy ending to this one.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 21/11/2008 08:21

"I guess my ten year old twins must be innocent then? They would never dream of doing anything like that and the longer they stay like that the better"

I think the idea is that children growout of innocent childish willy waving rather than into it.

My children are growing up in a house with no locks on bathroom doors (can't be with a severely autistic child- at least not on the inside, there are locks outside to keep him out), where we all tend to walk around freely naked. As the younger 2 hit puberty I guess that will change in some way, but for the moment they have no idea that their willies are anything other than highly amusing and I can't say they cover up or stay out of the bathroom for family guests (I try and keep them out for non-family guests, not that we have many).

nooka · 21/11/2008 18:12

My household is like that too, and I think the willy waving goes in phases, and then probably disappears at about the point when privacy becomes an issue to the child in question. That can vary, ds has sometimes said he wants his bath without dd coming in "invading my personal space", and sometimes begs for dd to come in and talk to him (and vice versa) for example. Mostly nudity just isn't something they think about much. It's just what happens when you take your clothes off. We don't tend to have non-family friends around much at times when the children could be naked, but they are aware that you should be discrete in public (at the beach for example).

OP do you like your dp's brother? Does he irritate you in other ways perhaps? I think it is perfectly reasonable to feel that you don't want your dd to spend time with people that you don't like and don't entirely trust, just that launching into accusations of abuse is probably the best way to start a really serious family feud. Anyway, good luck with sorting things out.

R2G · 22/11/2008 01:00

you are and you aren't being unreasonable IMO
Your DP's mum should be having a word with him while you are there and if staying over your DD's should be left in bed in peace.

However I wouldnt class it as being abused and if that is how you put it ie. that DD is not allowed to stay over because your son abused her i would say 'oh leave it out as well', but i can see your frustration that MIL hasn't even dealt with him being inappropriate. Now is the time/right age for her or your DP to be speaking to him.

Your DD is a little girl and she doesnt know about willys and doesnt want him to show her one and he must not put his privates on people- she should be telling him i can see what your upset about, but I'm not sure what you have said to them?

thumbwitch · 22/11/2008 01:20

not having read all of this as it's too late, I migh tbe repeating - but is there any reason why your DP can't have a word with his brother, man to boy, and explain that it's not the done thing to put his willy on little girls?

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