to want to post on the "For my husband to earn £65,000 per annum and we still can't afford to live"..... thread because it's full???

[chockywocky]

i cant believe its full and and havent had my say.....

Personally I think it's a pleasant change to hear someone being as positive about working as Xenia. I work full-time doing I job I love & have a 3 year old ds. Initially I worked after having ds because I had to in order to progress my career & I now earn 3 times what dh does having put the effort in. We're hoping for another child which would mean all of dhs salary will go on childcare if that was how we chose to look at it. The reality is that the % of our household income which goes on childcare will increase. I think in some cases it's a bit of a cop out to say you can't work because of childcare costs when actually there are potentially 2 household incomes to pay for childcare not just the mothers.

I don't think anyone has any problems with posters being positive about working. I'm all in favour of mothers working full-time if that's what they want to do, and I wouldn't ever support anyone who argued that women shouldn't work, or that if they had to work they shouldn't enjoy it.

The problem with Xenia is that she is foully insulting about women who choose to stay at home. What's refreshing about that?

Yes, there may 2 incomes.

It doesn't mean it's always financially viable for the lower earning partner to go to work.

The childcare is still x amount, regardless of who pays for it.

If childcare is say 10k and the woman is going to earn 10k then it's a bit of a no brainer imo

Your house hold income is your house hold income. It's not going to rise because your DH or whoever is paying half of the childcare costs.

DP earns more than me, ergo he pays more of our household expenses than I do.

my husband earns a great deal less than me. He wants to work and I support his decision to do so.
We have never considered that his staying at home would be more financially viable option for us as he enjoys work and it has always been that we share the burden of financial responsibility even though my contribution is much greater.

if childcare was more than the second persons salary the couple would end up with less money having 2 earners than if one stayed at home.
Wouldn't make much sense unless you enjoyed work more than the money.
Which I guess some poeple do.

It's a pot of money in our house
The childcare won't last for ever and if my husband or I left work now I'm not sure about how we'd get back into it or at what level
We both really enjoy working as well

It wasn't a consideration for us

Xenia, you are missing the point.

Your constant belittling of women who have chosen to stay at home with their children (now saying that we are failing our daughters and risk plunging us all back into the days when women couldn't work ) is the same as if I were to say to you that you have failed your children by choosing to prioritise your career above them resulting the breakdown of your family.

Before I get flamed I do not believe that is the case but am just making the point.

Your views are not so much feminist as mysoginist.

I love the way Xenia says, "just go and earn another 100k" - like it is pocket change. Get real Xenia. I have been a working mum for 2 years, I have decided to have a break, i had no job satisfaction i missed my DD so much, and 2 thirds of MY wages were paying for the childcare. IMO it think it is sensible to be in the position (and if you have a partner) that his salary should cover mortgage and bills and mine for everything else.

But ready I would be content for you to say that in a world where we have freedom of expression and sometimes these things need to be said. I do feel women let themselves down and the reason we don't have 50% of the cabinet and most boards of companies female is because far too many are giving up work to bring up childre in the crucial years and unless they stop doing that we will never really get to a better position with more equality in the work place. Therefore a decision to stay at home is not just a personal one but a political one too and one which has implications for other women. if you don't like to read that then just don't read my posts.

But what I get fed up with is just about every article you see about women and work being about women going on about wanting to work part time, work less, as if the category that I am in - always worked full time and enjoy it doesn't exist int he UK and yet we are out there in our legions doing well, and enjoying it. Women and work isn't a problem. It's a way women can lead fulfilling lives and the more women who know that the better. I had an article along those lines published about a month ago and I was happy to be given the chance to say some women love their work.

Alkso the point made above is true - if you stop work because you earn less than the child care whether you are male or female that can mean for the 30 years of working life after the children go to school you really have often messed things up and it's very hard to get back in particularly at the moment. So you need to look at what do I hope to be doing at age 55 or 65 and do I want to be able to fund children at univesrity? Do I want to be able to support myself and the children when my husband escapes to Malaysia with a younger bride and refuses to pay a penny etc etc

maybe, just maybe, some women want to stay home or work part time. It can be just as fulfilling.
Its a choice.

and I'm not arranging my life or my children's lives round some political ideal.

But it is just as easy to argue that staying at home is a political decision. Its about one's values.

You hide behind the excuse that you are trying to empower women and yet you are doing just the opposite. Feminism was all about women having the choice to go out to work not being required to do so.

I had a very good career earning plenty thank you but find staying at home and watching my children grow and develop far more fulfilling and fun.

You may not have enjoyed staying at home with your children but don't assume that the rest of us are all miserable.

It is all about waht you want to do and I would ahve no problem if you would just accept that. It's the hiding behind badly thought out cod feminism (and now politics) that bothers me.

You want to work, I want to be with my kids. Both are equally valid things for a woman to do.

Xenia - I am no better or worse off - I am in the why have kids for someone else to look after them school of thought. It is not about politics, it is about being strong enough and brave enough to do what you feel is right, for you and your family. Money isn't everything Xenia, Em, just because I have taken a short break, does not mean I will become a dosser, I am actually looking for a more flexible working week, as 9-5 is pointless. If I can stagger my working hours over seven day week, I can cut back on DD's nursery bill, spend time wih her - upto 2 extra days a week AND earn a living.

Get off your fucking soap box love.

..........."a decision to stay at home is not just a personal one but a political one too and one which has implications for other women"....... Oh that's made my day!!!! One of the funniest things I have read in a long time!!!!!

Having a degree and a profession and (formerly) a 6 figure salary in a VERY male orientated environment, on which I supported DH (as he was in the process of setting up a new business) and my first daughter, I feel I know something about strong successful women working and the fulfillment and enjoyment that can come from a great and interesting job. I also know about long hours, the cost of nannies and the loss it is possible to feel as you miss out on so much of your childrens' young lives.

After DD2 I went back to work only part time and now, expecting DC3 I have decided to stop entirely for a couple of years (if not for good, who knows). How can that be anything other than a personal choice!!! I have two DDs, they will receive every support from me to pursue their abilities to their absolute best and to achieve everything possible professionally and personally. The implication that by giving up work I am somehow letting my daughters down and condemning them to a life as second class citizens is simply silly!!

Everything is a personal choice. I want to be at home with my children. Many of my friends want to continue to pursue the careers they worked so hard for. That's great, I am lucky to have the choice and so are they.

"Do I want to be able to support myself and the children when my husband escapes to Malaysia with a younger bride and refuses to pay a penny etc etc"

LOLOLOL

Yes, it happens to us all

No wonder he fucked off - Xenia the date is 8th of November 2008

Oh, and BTW.

My mother was and is very focused on her career

It hated it as a child. I always felt I came second to her job (and I often did)

So I made the decision for myself to be a SAHM, at least until after I had my second and that is what I did. I now work FT hours, but not normal business hours so that, as I said in my earlier post, I don;t have someone else bringing them up. It has nothing to do with me wanting to be a little wifey and everything to do with making the right choices for me and my children.

Xenia often forgets that not everyone is a high earner. It's not as simple as going and getting a 500k job tomorrow.

What would she do without someone collecting her bins each week? or someone sweeping the road outside her mansion? I doubt those workers earn anywhere near a 6 figure salary, yet they are very useful and essential members of our world.

It's great fun to do work you like. I'm very lucky that is so and I am sure many other women enjoy their full time jobs as do many men. What is sad is when people end up in work they don't enjoy.

Clearly the example our parents set us does have some effect on children in all kinds of areas. My daughter has friends with stay at home mothers - one of whom is working with Jewish matchmakers at the moment to ensure the friend finds not just a nice but a rich and suitable Jewish husband. That girl is not really pursuing the sort of career choices after university most of the others are. Whereas if you have a parent of either sex who loves their work and enthuses about it it might make you think yes I'd like to find work I enjoy too.

SO let's have in the press more examples of women working full time and loving it like that woman profiled in the FT yesterday who in effect saved Barclays from state control when she found middle eastern investment for the bank. Women and work isn't a problem. It's a normality and something many of us enjoy.

If you have a court order, what your ex husband earns is none of your business.

If you don't have a court order then get a court order

ENd of.

it's odd, my mother was a sah but really hated it and it made me think then that it was more important that she was happy rather than doing something miserably

I enjoy work and I enjoy my children
i don't use emotive language around this subject because I think as mothers we are hard enough on ourselves

I get upset when people talk about my having someone else bring up my children because I think it is innappropiate comment.(but we are on a internet site fgs so heyho)

I feel I'm being a better mother because I am happy and stimulated and enjoy having the opportunity to use my education and skills daily. I'm intellectually challenged and I feel better for it.
I was miserable during my mat leave....I didn't feel at all like myself and I was rubbish at it.

However that is just me and my experience and I'm doing what's best for me and my family.

I know some women who thrive at home as do their children. It just isn't for me.

sorry Ron, I used the expression

I couldn't think of a better one

I have ishoos with my mother anyway.

None of her colleagues at work know anything about me or my kids. That's how it's been my whole life. I guess I am just her dirty little secret

don't be daft syb it's just the terrible terrible slatterly guilt that I carry around!

My mum was at home and very miserable, gin at 11 anyone??

But she still thinks that I should be at home with my children..argghhh

my parents both worked FT in hard jobs for sweet fa pay always told me to "stick in at school.get a guid job"

they were good role models and yes positive for me having a mum who worked and encouraged me to be financially independent and solvent

Sorry, back again

I feel bad if I have upset you Ronster.

What I should have said is that, for the quality of childcare I could afford on my wage, I would rather stay at home. I'm not against childcare in any way shape or form - I use a CM 3 mornings a week - but I can't afford any more than that. I saw some pretty grim nurseries when I was looking. I wouldn't be happy about my kids going to them tbh, and if that makes me a snobby twat, then I am a snobby twat.

Why can't we all have a balance in this day and age ?
I've been through various nurseries and the standard of some were so bad I'd have been better off leaving them home alone, had psycho nannies who damaged my daughters self esteem beyond belief.
I know from the days when I did work full time that very rarely does anybody actually do 40 hours work a week.
So when will employers wake up and offer women the opportunity to have a real proper career around their children's needs. I could happily start work at 7am and have my DH drop the kids off and then leave at 3pm and DH work later.
Somebody I know from college actually became a hooker because it was flexible and offered her a salary she could live off, when I told other people expecting them to be floored, they weren't surprised at all.