to want to post on the "For my husband to earn £65,000 per annum and we still can't afford to live"..... thread because it's full???

[chockywocky]

i cant believe its full and and havent had my say.....

Limara, start a thread.

AIBU Thread started..

I do resent having to have get into so much debt in order to keep my ex husband to the standard to which he'd become accustomed. Not many London teachers end up with over £1m. If I didn't have the debt or it woudl be paid off in a year or two it wouldn't matter at all. I know men who've paid more than that to their wives but sell one of their businesses and the sum is soon paid off. It's the continuing impact of it that matter. It feels like £88k year a maintenance to him for life although he got it all at once. The law is very unfair and normally it's unfair on men not women as most women have the sense to marry men who by and large keep them. 4 in t5 women earn less than their partner in the UK therefore 4 in 5 in effect are kept in return for cleaning, child care and sexual services I suppose (assuming they still provide sex....)

But on the subject of the thread I should take my own advice, find a way to make over £1m and just pay off the mortgage.

Have I done cleaning etc? Of course. I think it's brilliant my daughter is doing that kind of stuff on her gap year. It makes you appreciate what you have when you end up in a job. One main issue on this thread is people assuming work is something nasty that we all hate and the more hours you do the unhappier you are. What we surely want for our children and ourselves is work the enthuses us. I would far rather be sitting here dealing with some work stuff arising from my iran trip this week and some other interesting work than cleaning the toilets at home. The fact I arranged things so I can do it in and around the children today is pretty nice too.

I only suggested bar and cleaning work and stuff you can do by leafletting door to door because those who didn't have the sense to get good qualifications or pursue a proper career are more likely to be able to find that type of work. Obviously if you can find something better paid that you enjoy more then go for that instead.

Victorian, you are misinterpreting this.

Firstly, I remember the potential outing of Xenia which was appalling.Everybodys right to privacy on here is the very essence of Mumsnet .

Personally, I am affronted by Xenia because of her downright rude and opinionated posts that sometimes are reference to my lifestyle choices.
She does not consider any other point of view or way of life acceptable save her own and I find her generalisation very offensive at times and it could be mistaken for bitterness.

I am sure Xenia is well aware when she puts things on here the potential reactions. It's par for the course.

It has absolutely nothing to do with money. For all you know I might be a millionaire/ highly successful business woman; I still find her posts offensive.

Actually the other thread inspired me and I did agree with something that xenia said (which doesn't happen that often ). It is easier to earn more money than cut back. I've started a blog about ways to earn a little extra. Or even a lot if you have the time/energy/inclination.

I'm about to put a few posts on about direct selling/party plan in general and a few that I've tried with varying degrees of success and scummy's idea from the other thread of babysitting then I might cut back to one idea a day, but I will try to keep it going.

If anyone has any good ideas please let me know.

Oh it posted- I pressed stop half way thugh in case anyone thought it was advertising. The plan though is to do the stuff I'm talking about on there, rather than make any money from the blog itself. I've always been allowed to post my autism blog on here (information again). But anyway if anyone thinks its advertising just hit the red ! and get it removed.

Tell more precisely what you find offensive. I've said women often feel empowered and happier when they pursue careers they enjoy and earn quite a bit of money and that many women are more kept back by their men, culture, upbringing and internal psyche than any physical limits on their pursuing a career or founding a business which they might enjoy. I'm not the only person who says this. It's the core of about 1000 self help business surely and I am lucky enough to have found that it seems to be correct.

I don't find it particularly acceptable or in women's long term good in 2008 for them to live off mail earnings and most do work of course.

More interesting is how to earn more money. So let's think about that. If I'm fed up with having a mortgage over £1m let's think of a way to reduce it to zero rather than my whinging about the level of it. In fact challenges and difficulties probably make most people happier than where they have no purpose in life so may be the difficulties most of us have are actually better for us than if life were a total bed of roses in which case we'd be cocaine addicts in a life without purpose.

you make a black and white statement about earning more money though. Many don't have a partner to watch the kids while they bar work or clean, many are poorly or disabled to do jobs like those or care for disabled children which is a 24 hour job in itself.
I did train for a good career in my 20's. I'm now 40 and retraining would take years plus money I don't have and who will care for the kids while I'm doing it?
But then I don't want a million pound mortgage. Who needs a house that ;arge?
You should acknowlegde that for others who aren't rich lawyers things are difficult and tough.

tee hee I do so love your posts Xenia. "Have I done cleaning etc? Of course. I think it's brilliant my daughter is doing that kind of stuff on her gap year. It makes you appreciate what you have when you end up in a job."
Cleaning is a job for many. Some people even like it, mothers especially as the hours mean they can earn a bit but still look after their kids. Many others do it as they really have no choice. Do you really have no idea how patronising you are..?

Xenia, what have you got against posties?

LOM at quattorcentro

It is statements like 'I don't find it particularly acceptable or in women's long term good in 2008 for them to live off mail earnings' that are so offensive.

Xenia always assumes that SAHMs are some how failing their families and now womenkind in general.

We all have different priorities. Xenia's are her career and money, which is fine, if only she wouldn't insist on having a go at everyone who doesn't share them.

Sorry, have had to put up with her SAHM bashing on another board for years so a bit disgruntled to find it here too .

how is a sahm failing but a nanny or childminder isn't? Unless people think unless you are handed money for whatever you do its 'failing'.
So I'm a failure for cooking the kids tea but if I paid another woman to do it then she's a canny career woman?
I do wish Xenia would stop having a go at SAHM's. I believe the opposite to Xenia but don't bang on and on about working mums. Its not my place to judge.

Don't be disgrunted ready2pop, just laugh and thank your lucky stars you're not in Xenia's world. Yes she's often offensive, but personally I find it hard to take her seriously as what she says is largely reactionary and absurdly narrow minded. Sorry Xenia, but you sound like something off AbFab to me. Feel free to flame, I'd be amused

An awful lot of women fought very hard and long to get the right to work, own property, vote etc and we just need to be a bit careful most women don't drop out of work. If they do employers will stop wanting to employ your daughters if they know 90% of women stop work etc. It's not exactly a novel point invented by me. I do think there's a moral and political duty on women to work and anyway most work so it's a bit of a non-point and not the subject of the thread.

I was saying there was nothing wrong with cleaning. Often you're self employed and if it's in a private house etc you tend to earn a bit more than in some minimum wage jobs too. I think most people would prefer their daughters to run the country, a hospital or a hedge fund than clean but this thread is about someone finding it hard to manage because her husband earns £65k I think. So one answer is never rely on men for money and go out and earn yourself an extra £100k for example. That's one answer or of course cut back and spend much less which tends not to be so much fun.

This is not a stay at home mothers' site. Most women with children under 5 do work, about 4 in 5 of them at least. There probably are dedicated web sites for stay at home mothers but as most women with under 5s do work (as did my own grand mother and great grandmother by the way - it's nothing new except amongst the rich) you'd expect most of them to be saying how much they enjoy work and what they get out of it... and even how much fun it is to earn more than £65k pour encourage les autres etc

NMS I actually find Xenia's posts encouraging and enabling. So many women resign themselves - to a life of family when there is a life outside as well - to a life of dependency on husbands or benefits or badly paid jobs.

It doesn't have to be like that. She is saying, as I would say, that most of the time this resignation, this settling for second or third best is borne out of barriers that are in women's heads.

The original OP (the wife who thought her husband's income was inadequate) thought that work was second best. It isn't if you have an enjoyable and satisfying career and it is within many women's powers to have that.

Xenia, i'm a mix of working and being at home, so does that mean the site isn't for me or only half is? Surely Mumsnet's for parents full stop. Doesn't matter amidst that who you are as all have a right to speak. + what's right for you, isn't necessarily right for others. That way great debate follows, which is the whole point and why so many read it/ post on it and keep coming back.

• Quatro it's often a choice for people (men too these days) to quit working and stay at home to raise their kids. Sometimes people don't choose it, but sometimes they do and it's often a positive choice for them and is quite often after having the sort of high demand job that Xenia champions, even if it does mean less money. It doesn't mean you're less of a woman if you go that way, and quite often it's not that those people have barriers in their heads over what women can achieve. Quite the opposite sometimes.

There's nothing second-best about staying at home if that's what you have freely chosen. Don't be such a bigot.

I'm a sahm and mumsnet is for me too. You are being oppressive by trying to stop us just cos we made a different choice.

'I actually find Xenia's posts encouraging and enabling. So many women resign themselves - to a life of family when there is a life outside as well - to a life of dependency on husbands or benefits or badly paid jobs.'

Not resignation. Choice. I found some man willing to go and support me while I did what I darn well wanted too.

Thanks, Q.I never said the site was not for anyone. What I do find is that stay at home mothers much more so than working women seem to get their feelings hurt much more easily just by being presented with examples of women who work, earn a lot, have lovely families and love it. Why? If you're happy at home why does seeing that most women work whilst having babies make you feel bad?

Certainly women are free to put across their views as to what they think is best and right and I don't feel offended when women say my five babies suffered or aren't properly bonded because I worked or got divorced or didn't spank them or whatever someone's personal view point is.

IN a sense the whole thread concept and the last one that got full was incredibly sexist - that a woman should rely on a man's money and complain his earnings aren't enough. The answer presumably is go out and earn more if you need more but don't rely on a man to earn the money.

"An awful lot of women fought very hard and long to get the right to work, own property, vote etc and we just need to be a bit careful most women don't drop out of work. If they do employers will stop wanting to employ your daughters if they know 90% of women stop work etc. It's not exactly a novel point invented by me. I do think there's a moral and political duty on women to work and anyway most work so it's a bit of a non-point and not the subject of the thread."

Yes. Marvellous.

So are you going to pay for my childcare so I can work FT?

No, thought not.

So I shall carry on doing my shitty-no-prospects job a while longer because it's all I can do, because I would prefer to bring my children up myself rather than have them "looked after" by a disinterested 16 year old on minimum wage.

Have any of you ever considered simply not reading Xenia's posts? I made the change several months ago and my blood pressure is now back to normal.

course I read Xenia's posts, they are too hilarious not too. So 1970's uber-feminist.

Good idea. No one is obliged to read. I did work at a loss. We both paid more than 50% of our salary in the early days when my now 24 year old was a baby but that was in a job where I expected to earn more in due course. Sometimes the sacrifice or just getting 6 hours sleep a night whilst you study or write your novel or keep up with the 3 jobs is the only way to that better life if money is important. To the original poster it obviously is.

Another answer to her is £65k is a huge lot more than what many people manage on and that she should become less materialist, go to church more, drink tap water like I do, enjoy walks and the library an things that cost nothing and then she'd find £65k okay.

Och, she's not what I would call a feminist. Feminists don't excoriate women for making informed lifestyle choices with which they're perfectly happy. Feminists don't regard child-rearing as work for drooling idiots.