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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that people shouldn't use the *F* word on Mumsnet

313 replies

Mulanmum · 29/10/2008 11:20

No doubt a bunch of smart alecs are going to tell me to F* off but ...

Why do some MNetters feel the need to use obscene language on here? Are they too inarticulate to express themselves without foul language? I started a thread on another topic, moving along nicely then a prolific poster told us to "all f* off". Why do that on a forum that is set up primarily to be friendly and supportive?

Just leave the foul language off MumsNet.

OP posts:
Carmenere · 29/10/2008 20:21

You know Mulanmummy, I am certainly not a moron and you may not be a nit-wit but if I was an independent bystander and chose to examine both of our posts, I suspect that your posts would appear more nit-wittish than my posts moronic
Essentially what you have done is to come into our local and totally misread the situation and announced that we are all a bit juvenile. You would have to admit that the majority of mners are happy enough with the way it is, or the way it was before you arrived at least and it wouldn't take a huge intellect to realise that. Your op and subsequent posts were much more objectionable than a few fucks.

Habbibu · 29/10/2008 20:22

Origins of "fuck":

[Probably cognate with Dutch fokken to mock (15th cent.), to strike (1591), to fool, gull (1623), to beget children (1637), to have sexual intercourse with (1657), to grow, cultivate (1772), Norwegian regional fukka to copulate, Swedish regional fokka to copulate (compare Swedish regional fock penis), further etymology uncertain: perhaps < an Indo-European root meaning ?to strike? also shown by classical Latin pugnus fist (see PUGNACIOUS adj.). Perhaps compare Old Icelandic fjúka to be driven on, tossed by the wind, feykja to blow, drive away, Middle High German fochen to hiss, to blow. Perhaps compare also Middle High German ficken to rub, early modern German ficken to rub, itch, scratch, German ficken to have sexual intercourse with (1558), German regional ficken to rub, to make short fast movements, to hit with rods, although the exact nature of any relationship is unclear.
On the suggested Indo-European etymology (and for a suggestion that the word was probably a strong verb during its earlier history in English) see especially R. Lass ?Four letters in search of an etymology? in Diachronica 12 (1995) 99-111.
It seems certain that the word was current (in transitive use) before the early 16th cent., although the only surviving attestation shows a Latin inflectional ending in a Latin-English macaronic text: see quot. a1500 and note at sense 1b. See discussion at FUCKER n. on various supposed (but very doubtful) earlier occurrences of the word in surnames. However, if the bird name WINDFUCKER n. (also FUCKWIND n.) is ultimately related, it is interesting to note an occurrence of the surname Ric' Wyndfuk', Ric' Wyndfuck' de Wodehous' (1287 in documents related to Sherwood Forest) which may show another form of the bird name. Use in a sense ?to strike? could perhaps also be reflected by the surname Fuckebegger' (1287); perhaps compare the Anglo-Norman surname Butevilein (literally ?strike the churl or wretch?), found in the 12th and 13th centuries. For discussion of a possible (although not certain) occurrence of FUCKING n. in a field name fockynggroue recorded in a Bristol charter of c1373 see R. Coates ?Fockynggroue in Bristol? in N. & Q. 252 (2007) 373-6.
Many alternative theories have been suggested as to the origin of this word. Explanations as an acronym are often suggested, but are obviously much later rationalizations.
Despite widespread use over a long period and in many sections of society, fuck remains (and has been for centuries) one of the English words most avoided as taboo. Until relatively recently it rarely appeared in print, and there are still a number of euphemistic ways of referring to it (compare e.g. EFF v., FECK v.2, F-WORD n., F-WORD v.). It is also frequently written with asterisks, dashes, etc., to represent suppressed letters, so as to avoid the charge of obscenity. Modern quotations for the term before the 1960s typically come from private sources or from texts which were privately printed, especially on the mainland of Europe. Bailey (1721) included the word (defined ?Foeminam Subagitare?), but not Johnson (1755), Webster (1828), and later 19th- and early 20th-cent. dictionaries. Partridge (1937) included the word as ?f*ck?, noting that ?the efforts of James Joyce and D. H. Lawrence have not restored it to its orig. dignified status [in dictionaries]?. A gradual relaxation in the interpretation of obscenity laws in the U.K. followed the unsuccessful prosecution in 1960 of Penguin Books Ltd. (under the Obscene Publications Act of 1959) for the publication in the London edition of D. H. Lawrence's Lady Chatterley's Lover (see, for example, quot. 1928 at sense 1b). The first modern dictionary of general English to include an entry for the verb fuck was G. N. Garmonsway's Penguin English Dictionary of 1965.]

differentWitch · 29/10/2008 20:23

Bravo, Habbibu!

Habbibu · 29/10/2008 20:24
expatinscotland · 29/10/2008 20:24

Carmen, get onto The Restaurant thread NOW.

Send Michelle and her lackey some negative vibes .

hullygully · 29/10/2008 20:26

Fuck me!

Habbibu · 29/10/2008 20:28

Actually, what makes me laugh is that you really don't get this detailed level of etymology for most words in the OED - shows you just how fascinated people are by taboo words. Should imagine there's shedloads of research on it.

hullygully · 29/10/2008 20:35

Interestingly, there was a large survey conducted recently in Lichtenstein which showed that the people who swore the most were female, between the ages of 19 - 47 and had brown hair (natural, not dyed), there is an application for funding pending to ascertain the correlation between bad language and hair colouring - it has been posited that there is a genetic link similar to that of red hair and temper.

teafortwo · 29/10/2008 20:35

Hi - Hatrickortreat - this is some thread now - !!!!

Mulanmum, I resect your view and like you as a person and mner but I personally think censoring words is a bit '1984'. I think it is far more humane to trust human nature which I, like you, believe to be general good. If things do turn nasty I suppose it is good to have the safety net of knowing people are quite cool about offensive messages being deleted! That, I find very reassuring! People think YANBU to want to (now, in the past, or in the future) delete something that has hurt you. This is positive for you!

Habibbu - Did I encourage that???

Hey - Do you know the origin of the English word "graze" - is it linked to the French word "grailler"??? It could settle an ongoing discussion I am having with a friend!

T42 scuttles off to enter lottery !

Habbibu · 29/10/2008 20:40

hullygully, if you don't post detailed references and abstracts, I really don't see how you can expect anyone to take you seriously

Habbibu · 29/10/2008 20:43

t42 - just looked it up - don't see any links with grailler, I'm afraid. Can post the whole lot if you want!

hullygully · 29/10/2008 20:44

Habbibu - I'll get my research assistants onto it when RB lets them out.

GhostlySinCity · 29/10/2008 20:45

Is Fook any better?

LaVie · 29/10/2008 20:49

I'm liking knobjockey. I may have to make that my word of the week

teafortwo · 29/10/2008 20:51

Oh no no no - I need to stop somewhere or you will have the whole English dictionary origins posted up here!!! Ha ha ha!!!

It wasn't a discussion where one thought (a) and the other thought (b) it was more of "They sound similar but the spelling and sound of the words aren't linked but they do both refering to food... are they in some way linked?"

Actually - please do post the ifo... but after that I promise I will stop!!!

Habbibu · 29/10/2008 20:54

Here: [OE. grasian, f. gras-, græs GRASS n.1; cf. MDu., MHG. grasen (Du. grazen, G. grasen), Sw. gräsa, Da. græsse, trans. and intr.]

  1. intr. Chiefly of cattle: To feed on growing grass and other herbage
expatinscotland · 29/10/2008 20:55

i'm going to be seriously fucked off if Michelle and whatever her husband's name is win The Restaurant.

Habbibu · 29/10/2008 20:56

Did Carm not join you, expat?

teafortwo · 29/10/2008 20:57

Habbibu - thanks!

OrmIrian · 29/10/2008 20:58

Unneccessary? Did someone say unneccesary? Is swearing unneccesary? I suppose it is. Along with lots of the talking we do. And plenty of other wonderful life-enhancing things we enjoy. Like chocolate. And wine. And oral sex. And MP3 players. And music for that matter.

And red woollen toe socks.

OrmIrian · 29/10/2008 20:59

And mini skirts. And shoes with big heels.

And make-up.

And coffee.

And pets.

OrmIrian · 29/10/2008 21:00

Shall I go on?

expatinscotland · 29/10/2008 21:00

she did, Hab.

and everyone on that thread is fucked off by Raymond's decision.

Cheesesarnie · 29/10/2008 21:02

OrmIrian and footmuffs

Habbibu · 29/10/2008 21:04