To think its unfair that my DD will probably not get into the state school I can see from my window

[dilemma456]

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Yes I was carefully avoiding CofE because it is death to my faith-schools-are-racist argument.

Fascinated that there are lots of black catholics. Really?

Yes Squeaky- you have made that point before- in the interests of evangelism... unfortunately most RC/CE headteachers do not agree with you!

miffy you are correct- those with most money will always be able to get into the best schools.

Quat- an interesting aside- did you know that 7th day adventists (many of whom are of African-Caribbean origins in UK) actually live according to kosher laws? Fascinating I thought!

CofE schools go by diocesan policy and some of them are very mission oriented.

RC schools are a bit different because there is an element of catechism that is taught, so reasonable for Catholic children to go and non-Catholic children not to go. I personally would not send my children to Catholic primary, but happy at senior level.

Not read the whole thread, because I can pretty much predict how it will have gone.

My answer, the obvious answer, is that of course it is unfair. And it is a disgrace. Anyone who pretends otherwise is just feathering their own child's nest.

Lord, I think this is the first time UQD and I have agreed about anything.

Those with most disposable income will always be able to have the best of everything I am afraid. I do not know what the answer is for the education system- which should be universally excellent if children of any background are to have a good foundation in life, and the best opportunities available to them.

However, faith schools are just another tool of discrimination, that keep out the most marginalised in society, and prevents truly disadvantaged children from success.

And for the record an atheists-only school would be ridiculous as well!

Well- you need to read the whole thread Mr.!
I am trying here, but unfortunately those who have been indoctrinated still roll out the same old arguments that 'You're just jealous cos your kids can't go'

Thank the Lord () an atheist has said that.

I am not arguing for an atheist school UQD- but rather for secular education- an entirely different thing.
Religion has no place in education.

But that's not an argument, is it? It's simply refusing to engage in any sort of reasoned discussion.

How exactly are faith schools discriminating?

They are simply pulling families with particular values into one place, according to the number of places available.

They turn people away (which I presume you consider discrimination) because they don't have enough places for all applicants, there for the solution is to build more faith schools, not abolish them.

eachpeach - I know, not aimed at you.

I don't know anyone who seriously argues for an "atheist school". It would be pointless. As would an "atheist" gathering of any sort, really. Why come together to celebrate your rational non-belief? There is nothing atheists have in common that we can "do" together. We just are. We just get on with life.

No- they turn people away who are not of their faith. People who live on the same street as the school cannot attend because their parents are not of that faith. Whereas children of that particular faith who live several miles away can get in. That is discrimination.

squeakypop - they discriminate because they turn away people whose taxes have paid for that school, on the grounds of superstition. An indepebdent, fee-paying faith school would be an entirely different proposition.

I've done this argument too many times, you know. Can practically knock it out in my sleep....

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Those with most disposable income will always be able to have the best of everything I am afraid. I do not know what the answer is for the education system- which should be universally excellent if children of any background are to have a good foundation in life, and the best opportunities available to them

It sounds like Communism would suit you, but as we all know some pigs are more equal than others !

bloss - your point is very valid, but is a separate one I think.

If you are in the catchment bloss why can you not get in????
If you cannot get in- you are not in the catchment.

don't believe it eachpeach.
Some of the "best" schools round here have turned away up to 20 pupils from the catchment this year. The catchments are over-crowded - people moving into them to get into the schools.

They turn people away because they are so popular that too many people apply.

If they had fewer applicants than places, they wouldn't turn anyone away.

Families want their children to go to these schools.

All over-subscribed schools turn children away, according to their selection criteria. Single sex schools discriminate half the population; grammar schools discriminate; most schools discriminate against children who live on the wrong side of the street.

A school that is "good" should not be abolished. They should be emulated.

Catchments areas change on an annual basis, according to the applicants, I am afraid. There are schools in some areas with extremely small catchment areas. You cannot base the catchment on one particular years' entrance.

Katie -yes- I used to be pretty communist I think. Am still quite socialist in many ways, but yes, some are ore equal than others I know.

squeakypop - all of the above may well be true. None of the above is an argument specifically for faith-based schools.

The key argument for faith schools is that parents like them.