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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To let my 3yo run around shouting in a church...

461 replies

alardi · 21/10/2008 17:56

Obviously not during a service(!).

Here's the scene:
Fine medieval church in a small market town. Sign on church door that says "The church is open to all visitors". It's market day so many people popping in and out to see the architexture, buy a card, light a candle..

I go in with my 3yo DS who likes to run to the back the church, stopping to talk shout about things on the way, then run back to the front area (near the door), where the children's door is so that he can look at books, play with Noah's Ark toys there, etc. He tends to shout when he speaks at all, so from a stranger's perspective, you could say he's running and shouting...

As he runs back, a sour faced old bat old lady sitting in the pews, stands up and shrieks speaks sternly "Excuse me, this is not a playground!"

So I apologised and left...DS kept asking why we had to leave and I said it was because the miserable old hag old lady didn't like children.

But I haven't set foot in the church since, don't want to cause offense, can't get over the feeling that churches are really only for the old and solemn and miserable, not for lively young children.

Or was I outrageous to ever take my unruly DS in, especially as we are contented, resolute unbelievers? I just felt the church was part of DS's heritage and even if we are slack secularists humanists, I didn't want churches/religion to seem like a foreign culture to DC (hence why we used to visit the church fairly frequently).

OP posts:
ladymariner · 22/10/2008 18:42

(ladym cocks an ear to the sound of op backtracking.........)

But you're still being unreasonable!

SqueakyPop · 22/10/2008 18:46

I don't think the OP's ability to control her DS or her DS's exhuberance is the real issue here. It is that she thought that this type of behaviour in church was perfectly acceptable.

Although perhaps not, or she wouldn't have had the self-doubt to start a AIBU thread.

tortoiseshellWasMusicaYearsAgo · 22/10/2008 18:55

alardi, ds2 has very little speech as yet, at 2.5, it is coming, but slowly. However, if I am somewhere like a church and whisper to him, he 'whispers' back. Could you try that? Simply imitation!

ScottishMummy · 22/10/2008 19:05

alardi you are doing more revision than a maths teacher "celeb"?no!means 300+ folk felt like stating the obvious YABU

BoffinMum · 22/10/2008 19:29

I got so fed up of silly old (and young) bags tutting every time my children did anything that the average 70 year old wouldn't do in a church service, even though they were being really very good indeed, that I stopped going to church altogether and left the whole lot of them to get on with being cliquey (because that's what this is all about really). Honestly, can you imagine even having this conversation about children being children in Southern Europe? Whose flipping church is it anyway?? Who said it was supposed to belong to the over 70s, and the rest of us were only there under sufferance?? Did I miss a meeting at some point?? I am sad to say that sometimes we really seem to have it in for kids (and by extension parents) in this country, and we'd be best served by bearing in mind the bit about 'suffering little children' rather more dutifully. Ooh, I do feel better after that little rant.

SqueakyPop · 22/10/2008 19:32

So you are saying that it is ok for a guest child to come in and run and shout in an otherwise quiet place? And for the guest mother to condone the behaviour?

jangly · 22/10/2008 19:33

YA NOT BU!! You were not going to be in there that long and you and your little one had as much right as anyone else to be there. Find a nice methodist or united reformed church. They will welcome you both with open arms.

jangly · 22/10/2008 19:35

Whose house is it anyway?!

And what did he say about "suffer the little children"!

Blandmum · 22/10/2008 19:37

It isn't unreasonable for a 3 year olf to 'misbehave' in a church.

But you are an adult and it isn't unreasonable for you to take your child outside to run around until they calm down a bit. and when then have, take them back inside.

being open to families isn't the same thing as letting people do whatever that want IMHO

Moderation in all things

jangly · 22/10/2008 19:42

He wasn't "running around". Well, not as I read it. He just went to the back of the church at his normal speed (yes,running). Like most little boys will do. And he spoke in his normal excited tone of voice. (yes - loudly, don't they all?)

tigermoth · 22/10/2008 19:42

Just read OP and a few messages - I think it's great that you want your ds to grow up having some exposure to church even though you are an unbeliever.

What about going to a family service at Christmas or, when your ds is just a bit older, taking him to Sunday school? or findout if the family service on a Sunday has a crech?

You don't have to be an evangelical believer to dip your toe into the community life of your local church IME. Just see what's going on and find something to go to that is child friendly. Really any church is about the people who go there, not the buildings, so tap into what is going on.

tigermoth · 22/10/2008 19:47

PS my sons were both very loud and active toddlers and had trouble behaving well in church. I am eternally grateful to the sunday school teachers and regular church goers who tolerated them in family services. I would not have taken them to the more adult services or let them run around at quiet times, btw.

BoffinMum · 22/10/2008 19:47

I think it's better to have kids in church being kids than them never seeing the inside of a church or experiencing spirituality. We get far too reverential and up ourselves about all this, and it's not surprising congregations are dropping off. However I am of the opinion that if someone is singing, speaking, or trying to pray, kids should be encouraged to pipe down a bit for the duration. Other than that, what on earth is the big deal??

jangly · 22/10/2008 19:50

I think if I was in church, perhaps praying about some trouble in my life, I would be glad to see a happy little boy enjoying being there. Would not stop my prayers getting through I am sure.

sunnygirl1412 · 22/10/2008 20:08

Jangly - as I said earlier, not only did He say 'Suffer the little children to come unto me...' - he also said 'Love your neighbour as yourself' - which I interpret to mean having thought and consideration for others and putting their needs above your own at least some of the time.

pingping · 22/10/2008 20:09

My mumsnet is all fuck up :-(

boogiewoogie · 22/10/2008 20:11

You are being very unreasonable. You wouldn't expect him to run around in a cafe or restaurant or any other public indoor space that is meant for the general public would you? Yes I can understand that 3 year olds need to burn off energy and satisfy their curiosity etc. I have a 3 year old and would be extremely embarrassed that I would insist on leaving! You are being ageist as well as stereotyping churches as well as hypocritical and contradictory in your op.

Of course the church welcomes everybody, we attend church ourselves and contrary to your post, we encourage our dcs to make as much noise as they want during the worship service (but not sermon, that's partly what Sunday school is for) but I don't think that the elderly lady was being unreasonable to ask for a bit of peace.

SqueakyPop · 22/10/2008 20:12

I think there may be a 'Spare the rod and spoil the child' in there too.

pingping · 22/10/2008 20:12

Alardi did you say that u went to the church because the playground was wet? I am proper confused with this thread

jangly · 22/10/2008 20:13

He's a little boy! They weren't going to be in there for long.

SqueakyPop · 22/10/2008 20:14

He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.

Proverbs 13:24

googgly · 22/10/2008 20:15

You are, imo, not being unreasonable. It would be unreasonable to encourage a 3yo to run around and shout in a church (or even in a shop, or plenty of other places), but not to let him behave like a normal 3yo in a church for a little while on a busy market day when lots of people are popping in and out. My 3yo sang "Twinkle, Twinkle" at the top of his voice in a pretty little church the other day in a market town, because he loved the rich sound from the echo. The old ladies that happened to be there made a big fuss of him because they thought he was cute. We were in Italy though, which might make a difference.

roseability · 22/10/2008 20:15

I haven't taken my DS to church since he was christened and I suppose this is at the back of my mind

Not that he is a badly behaved little boy but he is only 2.6 and could I expect him to sit still through a whole service?

I will take him when he is older

jangly · 22/10/2008 20:16

Bloody hell! (Squeakypop)

SqueakyPop · 22/10/2008 20:16

Discipline your son, for in that there is hope; do not be a willing party to his death.

Proverbs 19:18